Will Aluminum Frames Last?

[Fiv3r]

I don't think anyone talking about the merits of aluminum as that it is structurally superior to steel in terms of durabilty. We are simply saying it's not like the manufacturers whittled the frame out of a bar of soap then cackled maniacally as they rolled around in the money they bilked from poor ignorant gun buyers.

The fact of the matter is that aluminum IS lighter. It's not a "cheap" material. It may not last as long as steel, but for 99% of gun owners a moot point. Some people don't buy a gun just because it will mathematically have a higher round count before it gives up the ghost.

I have exactly one aluminum framed gun: my 92fs. I have maybe 9 steel guns and 6 polymer. The Beretta is my favorite. I like the way the aluminum feels in my hand. I like how it points. I like how the weight of the frame balances the long barrel. I just...like it. I don't think I would be as jazzed about it if it had a frame constructed of steel or polymer. Conversely I don't think it is BECAUSE of the aluminum frame that I like it so much.

It's simply a sum of its parts, and no amount of grumbling over the mathematics is going to make me enjoy it less. I'll shoot it until it cracks, then buy a new one or switch to a new favorite. I don't think I'm an aluminum fanboy because I feel that the material has a place in the industry, nor do I see a 35,000 round life (but most likely much much higher) as a "disposable good".

 

[eldon519]

Ha, you are sitting here trying to compare wear on traction surface to wear on a bearing surface and you're supposing we don't have any knowledge? You don't see a difference between a surface designed for grip and a surface designed to be a smooth raceway? Right. For what it's worth I am a mech e, and I actually do not own any aluminum frame handguns. You've been provided numerous examples by now, if you don't get it yet, I think that's a "you" problem, not a flaw with aluminum.

 

[PRM]

70 X 50 = 3,500 rounds NOT 35,000

 

[MIL-DOT]

Sorry, double-post.....

 

[MIL-DOT]

70 X 50 = 3,500 rounds NOT 35,000

Yeah, no kidding, that was pointed out a couple times already (including in the very NEXT post).

I don't think anyone talking about the merits of aluminum as that it is structurally superior to steel in terms of durabilty. We are simply saying it's not like the manufacturers whittled the frame out of a bar of soap then cackled maniacally as they rolled around in the money they bilked from poor ignorant gun buyers.

The fact of the matter is that aluminum IS lighter. It's not a "cheap" material. It may not last as long as steel, but for 99% of gun owners a moot point. Some people don't buy a gun just because it will mathematically have a higher round count before it gives up the ghost.

I have exactly one aluminum framed gun: my 92fs. I have maybe 9 steel guns and 6 polymer. The Beretta is my favorite. I like the way the aluminum feels in my hand. I like how it points. I like how the weight of the frame balances the long barrel. I just...like it. I don't think I would be as jazzed about it if it had a frame constructed of steel or polymer. Conversely I don't think it is BECAUSE of the aluminum frame that I like it so much.

It's simply a sum of its parts, and no amount of grumbling over the mathematics is going to make me enjoy it less. I'll shoot it until it cracks, then buy a new one or switch to a new favorite. I don't think I'm an aluminum fanboy because I feel that the material has a place in the industry, nor do I see a 35,000 round life (but most likely much much higher) as a "disposable good".

Excellent post here that hits the salient points of the issue, rather than the nit-picky, largely irrrelevant ones.

 

[Slamfire]

why do i get the feeling those defending aluminum frames without any real knowledge of engineering or metallurgy most likely have paid $800 for something like a sig and their ego wont let them believe anything but it being able to last just as long as steel?

I think you are right.

I am also of the opinion that everyone assumes their bang stick will last forever and shoot an infinite number of rounds without wearing out.

 

[tarosean]

why do i get the feeling those defending aluminum frames without any real knowledge of engineering or metallurgy most likely have paid $800 for something like a sig and their ego wont let them believe anything but it being able to last just as long as steel?

I think you are right.

That's generally the rule when it comes to message boards. People defending what they spent their hard earned money on or complaining the loudest..

 

[eldon519]

I think what people are defending against is the assertion that aluminum is "inferior." It's such a facile over-generalization.

 

[HKGuns]

I have exactly one aluminum framed pistol, all of the others are either Steel or Polymer and I probably have more than most of the posters in this thread. So I am not defending what I own.

If you only own one pistol, you should probably not be posting and instead reading and learning.

Eldon is correct, this is a silly argument. Buy what you want, it is your money.

 

[Kiln]

Forgive my incredibly bad math. I've been in the ICU for days. To say I wasn't in the position to be doing complex calculations is an understatement. I'm amazed that post was even legible.

To my point, I think the cost of ammo vs the overall lifespan of an aluminum gun is acceptable, although I do think that for the most part, steel holds up better.

 

[USAF_Vet]

do you not realize its the same type of wear whether its a steel rail sliding across one part of the aluminum frame or someones wedding ring sliding across another part... to say "it wasnt DESIGNED for that type, but it was designed for this type when the nature of both situations is pretty much identical shows a general lack of knowledge on the matter

I suppose if you saw the hard edge present on the ring, you may think differently. IF it were rounded off and not stepped 90 degrees, it would probably be a non issue. As it is, it might as well be acting like an end mill on the front of the grip. I'm aware that steel on aluminum alloy will cause wear, eventually. But both the slide and frame are designed for linear contact. The grip was not. By design, the aluminum frame acts as a bearing surface with the slide, also acting as a bearing surface. As a mechanic, I understand that metal on metal wear, bearing surface or not, will eventually cause one or the other to fail. Steel slides have failed as often as aluminum frames. They are just as prone to wear and damage.

A ring on the grip does not move in a "pretty much identical" pattern as does a slide on a frame.

It's not the same type of wear at all, unless you dumb it down to the lowest common denominator, which is metal on metal wear.

theres quite simply no magical "design" or lubrication thats going to make aluminum not get worn when abrased by a harder material

Nor is anyone here saying there is such a thing. I'm pretty sure everyone has admitted that steel on aluminum will eventually cause wear on the less dense aluminum. You're arguing this point with no one but yourself.

 

[USAF_Vet]

why do i get the feeling those defending aluminum frames without any real knowledge of engineering or metallurgy most likely have paid $800 for something like a sig and their ego wont let them believe anything but it being able to last just as long as steel?

I paid $250 for a used Smith and Wesson, which is nearly as old as I am. I also have no notion that it would last as long as a steel frame. It will still probably outlast me, though.

You're making a great many assumptions and veiled insults to help solidify your position, but it doesn't make you any more right.

Also, another point to make, is that often the failures associated with aluminum frames have nothing to do with the slide rails. Most cracks I've seen that wind up killing the gun happen in the hole for the slide lock/ take down, which is associated with the repeated impact of the slide moving back and slamming forward. A lot of that energy is absorbed into the frame via the cross bar of the take down. But even steel guns can experience a widening of the hole and eventual crack in that spot.

 

[justin22885]

I paid $250 for a used Smith and Wesson, which is nearly as old as I am. I also have no notion that it would last as long as a steel frame. It will still probably outlast me, though.

You're making a great many assumptions and veiled insults to help solidify your position, but it doesn't make you any more right.

Also, another point to make, is that often the failures associated with aluminum frames have nothing to do with the slide rails. Most cracks I've seen that wind up killing the gun happen in the hole for the slide lock/ take down, which is associated with the repeated impact of the slide moving back and slamming forward. A lot of that energy is absorbed into the frame via the cross bar of the take down. But even steel guns can experience a widening of the hole and eventual crack in that spot.

ive mentioned the impact on the slide stop / take down pins in earlier posts as being a major wear spot.. this is the area besides the rails thats generally made of steel in polymer framed handguns.. unfortunately this is the fatal flaw present in all recoil operated weapons.. its also why i wish someone would make a gas-delayed full size pistol.. if you had that in a steel frame, eliminating that impact against the frame, your pistol would last forever... with a boost to accuracy too

 

[Slamfire]

Forgive my incredibly bad math. I've been in the ICU for days. To say I wasn't in the position to be doing complex calculations is an understatement. I'm amazed that post was even legible.

Not a problem. I have posted so many dumb posts, let loose full 44 gun broadsides at posters, only to find, I had not read their post carefully enough to understand that they were agreeing with me. Oops!

Let he who is without stupidity, throw the first rock.

Still, if you find 35,000 rounds of 9mm for $910.00 dollars, let me know..

To my point, I think the cost of ammo vs the overall lifespan of an aluminum gun is acceptable, although I do think that for the most part, steel holds up better.

I agree. My S&W Airweights are going to out live me.

 

[justin22885]

Not a problem. I have posted so many dumb posts, let loose full 44 gun broadsides at posters, only to find, I had not read their post carefully enough to understand that they were agreeing with me. Oops!

Let he who is without stupidity, throw the first rock.

Still, if you find 35,000 rounds of 9mm for $910.00 dollars, let me know..



I agree. My S&W Airweights are going to out live me.

if anyones selling it to you at that price, they probably stole it

 

[tercel89]

In my opinion the best and most durable aluminum frames were the Ruger P-Series pistol. They were tanks ! I still have a few and they still show no wear at all. Plus they will eat up the most of the hottest reloads you can make.