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Will the new NY law be repealed by the Courts?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by usmarine0352_2005, Jan 15, 2013.

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  1. JERRY

    JERRY Member

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    if im downtown anywhere at night and its known that drunks and crime occur there at higher numbers i will be glad to see cops on foot and near by.

    If i get drunk and act like a jack-ass id expect a public intox pinch. Of course my story, my friend's story and other drunks around me will say something diffrent than what a complainant and bar vidio will show im sure.....

    Im not affraid of cops standing around a known trouble area trying to deter idiots....
     
  2. riverdog

    riverdog Member

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    NY is directing its businesses to violate Federal law wrt NICS because they probably didn't know they couldn't, but having done it, do you think the current US AG will send it back at the NY State legislature. The Justice Department will give them a pass. It puts the business owner selling ammo in a Catch 22 and that's a good thing to the fine legislators in Albany. They'll need to plus up the funding for the NICS, because the traffic on their system is about to increase -- a lot.

    We'll need to wait for a new administration and an Attorney General who believes in the rule of law before many of these issues can be addressed properly.

    my opinion, YMMV
     
  3. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    US AG does not have any say on what laws NY passes.
     
  4. riverdog

    riverdog Member

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    I would think that a NYS law that requires a NY citizen to violate Federal law should get some reaction from the US AG. But it probably won't.
     
  5. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    I hope that when NYS asks the NICS system for "official" permission to use it's software that they say "no" because they are trampling the rights of the citizens of a state. Also, the system is already overloaded so something like this can ruin it for every state, which would not be right. Cuomo blows. I hope he does not get reelected. I hope every person who voted for this sham loses their job. Mid-term elections are coming up and the gun owners of NYS need to step up and make them pay for their crimes against their citizens.... every one of them.
     
  6. Solo

    Solo Member

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    Then how do they sell ammo to the police?
     
  7. riverdog

    riverdog Member

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    "Then how do they sell ammo to the police?"
    Dunno. Does NY LE purchase their ammo thru local retailers? I don't. AFAIK, Ammoman still ships to NYS.
     
  8. riverdog

    riverdog Member

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    It will be interesting to watch the lawsuits as they develop.
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman Member

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    Then how do they sell ammo to the police Quote

    All they have to do is use there letter head and request a LEO price, usually (Dealer) and their good to go. The same go's with guns.
     
  10. bubba in ca

    bubba in ca Member

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    Don`t bet on it.
    Magazine bans have been passed before without court interference. When it gets down to 2 round mags the courts might step in.
    It`s not ex post facto. You will not be penalized for having bought the gun or mag before the law was passed, but for possessing it after a given date. So went California.
    They will quickly tweek the law to allow police purchase/possession /use. It`s only ink.
    Using Nics for ammo checks might catch on--King Barry I will like that angle.
    It is highly likely that the courts will do nothing to stop these laws. Nor will the voters in a place like NY. State preemption laws will help in states that have them.
     
  11. riverdog

    riverdog Member

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    bubba in ca: "You will not be penalized for having bought the gun or mag before the law was passed, but for possessing it after a given date. So went California."

    Unless I missed something, high-cap mags (standard mags for those outside CA and a few other states) are still legal to possess in CA, you just can't purchase, sell, import or otherwise transfer a high cap magazine.
     
  12. goon

    goon Member

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    I wonder if the people of rural NY wouldn't be better served if their counties could vote to join PA. Is it possible for a county to secede from a state?
     
  13. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    I don't know but counties can overrule state policy. In IL, until recently, you could not buy or possess a handgun which was contrary to state law. Cook County and various cities have magazine capacity laws where the state does not. Can counties overrule the state law of magazine capacity and allow more? Can they ignore the "assault weapon" ban? Why can they go less and not more if both go against the state law?
     
  14. pseudonymity

    pseudonymity Member

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    Depends on the portion of the laws effected. There were over 40 sections in S2230, so the answer is "it depends".

    Mental health reporting and losing your handgun permit/AWs - this is almost certain to be overturned in court. A single person using just their professional opinion to relieve another person of a constitutionally protected right? I see no way this will stand.

    Background checks for ammo purchases - this probably depends on how the system is implemented, and how the NYSP limit the registration of "ammo sellers". There is a lot of confusion here on the ammo check law - there is no requirement in the law for an FFL to do a NICS check for ammo. The ammo background check and FFL check for FTF gun sales are completely separate.

    FFL NICS checks required for all FTF transactions. I am not sure on this one - I believe some states have this already, but the limit of $10 that NY put on the FFLs to process it may amount to a de facto ban and be overturned. No for profit FFL is likely to do a NICS check for $10.

    The two big issues - one feature test for AWs, and the mag round limits. How this goes is anybodies guess I think.
     
  15. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I presume you are saying that when two individuals, where one wants to sell or otherwise transfer a firearm to the other, must go to an FFL and have a background check made.

    They can do that, but only if the FFL agrees to go along with it, and the State of New York cannot compel a dealer to do so. If they do go forward, the FFL must first enter the firearm into his Bound Book, and then have the potential receiver fill out a #4473 form. Then they can call NCIS for a background check. If that individual is declined the original owner must fill out a #4473 form and go through a background check to get his/her own gun back.

    As you have observed, it is unlikely many FFL dealers will be interested in doing this for $10.00, and the State of New York has no authority to set fees for Federally Licensed Dealers. If for example, they want to set the fee at $100.00 they can do so. The individuals in this example have two choices: Either give up on the transfer, or find another FFL who charges a lower fee.

    It seems clear that the legislature and governor in New York believe they can dictate responsibilities and procedures to a Federal Agency. That won't fly.
     
  16. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Member

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    It won't take the SCOTUS. Any federal court can strike this down.
    SCOTUS has already ruled on Heller/McDonald. SCOTUS does not like to repeat themselves, and would probably offer punitive relief if they have to repeat themselves. There are several levels of federal courts that can deal with this.

    State courts can also choose to apply McDonlad as an incorporated civil right.
     
  17. nyctpt

    nyctpt Member

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    If I understand things correctly, and that's a big if with this piece of garbage bill, the ammo check will not be done using the NICS system. That portion of the bill doesn't go into effect until 30 days past the time when the NYS police have a background system of there own specifically for ammo purchases. Yeah. Which will not doubt be as expensive and worthless as the COBIS system which was shut down after solving.....wait for it.......zero crimes.

    The plan is to just buy ammo out of state, which they can't control, and reload, which it appears they haven't thought of yet.

    Ryan
     
  18. toivo

    toivo Member

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    What he said.

    Folks, before you get all excited about NY requiring NICS checks for ammo sales, that's not what they're doing. They're setting up their own check system, which supposedly will be operational in a year.

    If I know anything about this state (and I've lived here for a l-o-o-o-o-o-ng time), this system is guaranteed to be a dysfunctional clusterf*ck from top to bottom.

    New Yorkers, you have a year to buy ammo unimpeded: On your marks, get set, go!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  19. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    Ummmm, any idea where they can order some?
     
  20. toivo

    toivo Member

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    Yeah, well, that's the problem ...
     
  21. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    Will not be overturned under the U.S. Constitution.
    The Supreme Court (Miller) had no problem with a law that said a shotgun barrel had to be more than 18" or it violated the law in question.

    The NFA registration list for machine guns has not been opened by the courts.

    Banning magazines more than 10 rounds is not like banning all handguns (Heller)

    If I am not mistaken, NYC has a 5 round limit that bans the Model 12 pump shotgun
     
  22. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Not exactly. What they said was that the 2nd. Amendment provided for a militia, (Unorganized Militia of the United States) and that the members (most male citizens between 16 and 45) had to provide their own weapons. However no evidence had been provided showing a connection between a sawed-off shotgun and the Militia.

    The rifles and magazines that New York proposes to ban do have an obvious connection to the Militia.
     
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