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Will The U.s. Re-open The Draft?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by SNBA, Jun 12, 2004.

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  1. SNBA

    SNBA Member

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  2. Warbow

    Warbow Member

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  3. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    No chance.
     
  4. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    No chance.
     
  5. DMF

    DMF Member

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    Your first post was locked because it linked to a website that presented an utterly ridiculous claim, and the text of your post perpetuated it. The mods most likely closed it to keep people from repeatedly flaming you for posting such obviously ridiculous items. Nothing PC about it.

    I suspect there is a high probability this thread may end up the same.

    Draft? Possible? Yes. Probable? Not bloody likely!
     
  6. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    To save a little time, you can safely assume that nothing you read on the "From the Wilderness" website is true. The dude that runs the place appears to have never stopped popping LSD from his time at UCLA back in the early 70s.
     
  7. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    No I dont think so at this time.

    Bush has proposed pulling out 1/3 of our troops from South Korea to re-deploy them in other areas. This will help out a lot.

    Probably a bad idea in the long run to pull out of South Korea, but I think we are too short sighted to see that right now.
     
  8. WT

    WT Member

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    No.
     
  9. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    SNBA, leaving the birds and the bees out of it, where do you think soldiers come from? Could it not be that the law sets a limit on the numbers in the armed services and also budgets the amount of money?

    If there is a shortage of active duty people, could not Congress authorize more troops? And budget more money for salaries?

    Do you believe that authorizing more men, and budgeting the money to pay for them would not be sufficient for our needs, would not bring enough volunteer enlistees?

    Nobody knows whether or not we might someday need several million more troops in defense of the country. That's why we have the SSS on standby, with occasional updates for methodology of a Draft. It's what they do, whether or not there is an immediate need.

    It's part of the "what ifs" of life, just like the Pentagon wargamers and their plans to invade every country in the world, with allies and enemies varying all over the place. I'd bet there are plans for a U.S./Russia alliance against some "threat", as well as a U.S./China alliance. When you consider improbables, there are fewer surprises.

    Regardless, a Draft would be political suicide for any serious proponents...U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel is not a serious proponent; he's playing politics.

    Art
     
  10. Ian

    Ian Member

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    I can't see a draft without a serious change in the geopolitical situation (thank goodness).
     
  11. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    What is amusing is the Pentagon is completely frustrated by this rumor that refuses to die. They state they have not considered, do not need and have no intention of asking for the draft to be reinstated.
     
  12. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

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    Unlikely. Soldiers are expensive. For some odd reason, they expect food, clothing, shelter and usually pay. Adding a lot of hastily trained grunts would not be the best thing at the moment. We have enough supply issues at the moment.

    Anyything is possible. The real question is how likely. The answer at the moment? Not very.

    (Thanks to all you draftees out there. Volunteers made the choice, you guys were ordered. Can't imagine how hard that was...)
     
  13. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    the democrats are the ones that are trying to get a new draft proposed in house and senated. in house it has few co-sponsors in senate it is alone last I looked.
     
  14. Firethorn

    Firethorn Member

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    All services are handily making their recruitment goals. Waits of up to a year are not uncommon for entering the military, unless you're willing to enter in an 'any open job' type enlistment. This is where you get to fill any openings coming from people with CJR's failing out of Basic. Most common jobs are the Cook(Services), and Security forces for the Air Force, though you can get lucky. The AF is currently having to cut back, we're letting people out early, letting people transfer to the reserves/guard, and in somecases seperating them early.

    History shows that we could more than triple our current force levels (yahoo, promotions for everybody!) while still remaining a completely voluntary force. Lower standards a smidgen to let people like Kim du'Toit and Misha in, and you could probably remain volunteer with 10x the forces.

    The draft is, and should remain, a last ditch measure that should only be implemented after all volunteers are taken. It's definatly not required right now.
     
  15. CarlS

    CarlS Member

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    Art and Firethorn stated it well an accurately. I will add, that as a former recruiter, when manpower gets short, the recruiting standards are lowered. For example, the services might accept a percentage of GED's instead of requiring a high school diploma. Waivers of more minor physical problems, waivers for law infractions, etc can be stepped up. Right now, the Pentagon estimates that 25% of all males of enlistment age have been on Ridlin (spelling?). ADD is considered by the military as mental disorder. Thus, having once been prescribed Ridlin disqualifies an applicant. More of these applicants could be waivered. In short, there are more ways to increase the number of those eligible to enlist without a draft, raising pay, etc.

    For the record, I think ADD is bogus. I firmly believe school teachers demand Ridlin to drug students who are bored in our sorry classrooms - but that's another topic.
     
  16. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Why did we need a draft in Viet Nam?
     
  17. CarlS

    CarlS Member

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    The draft was already in place had been in place since WWII and through Korea. It had never gone away.
     
  18. fix

    fix Member

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    Hi Moby, welcome to THR. You'll find it's quite different from DU in that we don't tolerate useless drivel. :)

    Edit: Withdrawal of Moby comment pending. Having reviewed other comments from poster, it appears that he may be sporting the tinfoil hat, rather than the red beret. :scrutiny:
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2004
  19. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Carl,

    That didnt really answer the question. I realize it was still in place.

    Why was it still in place?

    If enough people had been volunteering, they would not have needed to draft.
     
  20. Partisan Ranger

    Partisan Ranger Member

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    Leftist extremists pine for a draft, as it would be a delightful way to bludgeon the president.

    I put its chances of being enacted at about 1,000,000 to 1.
     
  21. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    No i think the chances are better than 1 in a million, though I don't think its likely.

    But if we did end up going to war with the rest of the "axis of evil", I suspect it would happen.

    Can we fight wars with Iran, Iraq, Syria, and N. Korea without a draft?


    If enlistment rates are still high, and supposedly could be higher, then why do we have the stop-loss thing going?
     
  22. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Once again the military (or intelligence or LE or ???) takes the hit for a decision made by congress.

    Congress is the constitutional body that has continuously drawn down the troop authorizations. Congress tells the military how many ships, troops, etc. it can have. Congress can then appropriate the money to pay for the new humans under uniform if it wants to. Authorization and appropriations are two different acts.

    If we are strapped for boots on the ground, and we are, then it is congresses responsibility to either cut back on our committments in coordination with the executive branch OR increase the personel count. In any case congress has it p******er in the soup. To ignore congress' responsiblity is to avoid the real nature of the situation.

    This discussion sounds just like the 911 hearings. Everyone in the loop get swatter upside the haid except for congress. . . . . .the self-same idiots who created the legal and political atmosphere that gave us WTC II.
     
  23. WT

    WT Member

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    Lone Gunman - the draft was used to supply ground troops to VN because of the deliberate decision by President Kennedy and President Johnson NOT to use National Guard and Reservists. It was a political decision, not a manpower decision.

    Additionally Westmoreland limited tours in the field to 1 year for EM and 6 months for officers. Such short tours resulted in very high turnover of personnel.

    Something like 7,000-9,000 NG troops served in VN between 1961-1973. Not very many compared to what we see in Iraq nowadays.

    Also note, at that time we had hundreds of thousands of troops stationed in Europe. They could have been used in VN but LBJ chose not to do so.

    It would be politically unwise for the President to call for a draft, especially when it is not needed.
     
  24. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    To keep trained military personnel available instead of replacing them with a warm body fresh out of bootcamp.
     
  25. CarlS

    CarlS Member

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    Lone Gunman, WT and Hkmp5sd are correct. Up until the creation of the all volunteer force, the Army depended on the draft, along with voluntary enlistments, to fulfill it's manpower needs. Because of the draft, the other services needs were met with volunteers. Pay scales were changed and enlistment bonuses added to meet the needs of the volunteer force. Prior to the Viet Nam build up, the Army still relied on the draft to suppliment its needs.

    Stop loss was in effect during the first Gulf War also. The stop loss extended to all Army units including National Guard and Reserve units whether mobilized or not. Because of the miserable Viet Nam experince with the rotation system, the Army uses Stop Loss to help retain unit integrity and keep experienced teams together.

    Edited to correct a typo - Carl
     
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