Will there be a change from Concealed Carry to Open Carry?

[usmarine0352_2005]

.

If I'm correct, when the Constitution was written it pertained to Open Carry, as Concealed Carry was more for criminals.



So if we keep winning legal battles do you see the courts choosing Open Carry over Concealed Carry?




Do you think States would be allowed to decide on Open vs. Concealed Carry or would there would be Federal decision that all states would abide by?

.

 

[hiawatha]

Arkansas is really weird about that. Getting a CCP is pretty easy, but if you have one and your weapon becomes visible, even accidentally, you can be in big trouble!

 

[Caliper_Mi]

It is my understanding that right now there is no Federal law regarding either OC or CC, so the states are currently free to decide. CC may have been more associated with the criminal element at a certain time, but people both good and bad have been hiding firearms underneath various articles of clothing almost as long as there have been firearms and I don't see how the 2A would prevent CC. I'll wager most of the Founding Fathers understood discretion and why an honest man would choose to conceal a weapon . If we keep winning the right legal battles, I could see a Federal (probably through SCOTUS) requirement for some form of shall-issue CC permit to be made available in all states. Would rather be free like Az and not have to get a permit in order to exercise my rights though.

 

[Geckgo]

In louisiana, OC is legal statewide without a permit. I don't know if townships or parishes can overrule this or not, as I haven't read the state constitution in a while. But nobody open carries except the police. At least, not so many that you would ever notice venturing through. So, no, the feds don't chime in on OC or CC, it's up to the state.

 

[AKPastor]

OC and CC in Alaska without a permit. The only time I hear any grief is because some tourist gets scared by the sight of a gun. I don't know ho y'all can live like you do in some states.

 

[SMITHWESS]

"Constitutional carry" is the only thing that will satisfy me, in all states. But I think that will take some time. And that's a crying shame.

 

[atlctyslkr]

Eventually there will be some Fedearl Ruling that should/will clear all of this up but it may take some time. A National permit would be best, permits for all non-felons, no restrictions on posession at home.

 

[piranha45]

i was told by a senior that concealed-carry permits are more helpful to law enforcement, since a visible gun in concealed-carry laws warrants an investigation.

Allowing citizens to open-carry basically takes away the right of law enforcement to investigate whether a person is legally carrying a firearm or not. Apparently, biker-gangs waltzing about with their pistols are a problem in some areas, and giving them the option of open-carry weakens law enforcement's ability to keep tabs on whether they are lawfully carrying those weapons or not.

personally it still seems like open-carry should be the proper way; it does weaken law enforcement though...

 

[sansone]

OC and CC in Alaska without a permit. The only time I hear any grief is because some tourist gets scared by the sight of a gun. I don't know ho y'all can live like you do in some states.

here in FL we are pretty tolerant of firearms and tourism is a major cash-crop. The two don't mix well, tourists spotting a gun-grip for even a brief moment can wreck a theme park's day. On topic: open carry is not legal statewide. Some counties will ignore open carry but State Troopers enforce state laws so you can get in trouble. Even with a Conceal permit you are not permitted to expose any part of the gun

 

[rocky1]

Don't see it ever happening...

1.) There were not nearly as many people in the country at the time the constitution was written.

2.) There were not nearly as many reporters in the country at the time the constitution was written.

3.) There were not nearly as many no-minded busy bodies that thought they knew more about how you should conduct your life than you could ever possibly know in the country at the time the constitution was written. (Mostly because they all got shot!)

 

[Dreamcast270mhz]

Open carry still gives law enforcement the right to investigate, but it makes it legal, if you own the gun you carry and such, to display it openly, something that I have littel issue with. I wish VA would allow open carry, would allow people I know to avoid being harassed by delinquents. I mean, who would approach a person carrying a shotgun with intent to hurt?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Allowing citizens to open-carry basically takes away the right of law enforcement to investigate whether a person is legally carrying a firearm or not

Excuse me?!? Where does this "right" of law enforcement to investigate whether a person is legally carrying a firearm or not come from?

Let me provide an example. You are sitting in McDonald's eating lunch with two children. Do you think LEO has the "right" to come up to you, question you as to whether those children are yours or not, and produce identification for you and your kids to prove you are lawfully in possession of those kids?!? Kidnapping is a crime you know, and LEO walking into McDonald's and seeing you eating lunch with two kids has no idea whether those kids are yours or not, or whether you are a kidnapper or not.

Why are firearms any different?

Apparently, biker-gangs waltzing about with their pistols are a problem in some areas, and giving them the option of open-carry weakens law enforcement's ability to keep tabs on whether they are lawfully carrying those weapons or not.

Put yourself in the cops shoes for a moment. Which would you rather see, a "biker-gang" walking down the street with no visible weapons and have to guess if they are armed or not; or would you rather see a "biker-gang" walking down the street with pistols clearly worn out in the open in holsters on their belts? Would you rather KNOW where the guns are, or would you rather GUESS where the guns are?!?

personally it still seems like open-carry should be the proper way; it does weaken law enforcement though..

As stated above, open carry in no way weakens law enforcement, it strengthens law enforcement. A cop has no way of knowing where a gun is concealed until he finds it in a search, or it is probably too late. With open carry, the cop knows who is armed and where the gun is. If open carry is legal, such as in Washington, and a cop sees a person wearing a gun in a holster on his belt, that cop can be pretty dang certain the person carrying the gun is not a criminal because why in the world would a criminal want to carry a gun out in the open for all to see? The criminal is more than likely to hide their gun to avoid arousing suspicion.

And back to this "right" of LEO to check me out because I am wearing a gun. Ever heard of the 4th amendment to the US Constitution? The 4th amendment says that LEO has no right to "check me out" unless they have suspicion that I am committing a crime. So maybe you would like to see carrying a firearm automatically be classified as suspicious activity? Ummm.... NO THANK YOU!

In Washington state, for instance, the gun on my belt in a holster openly carried cannot be treated any differently then a cell phone on my belt in a holster. Both are equally legal to carry without a license, except in a few specifically limited areas clearly defined in state law (RCW 9.41.300). LEO has no "right" to check me out because I am carrying a firearm in a lawful manner than if I am carrying a cell phone in a lawful manner. And that does nothing to weaken LEO's ability to enforce the law.

Open carry still gives law enforcement the right to investigate, but it makes it legal, if you own the gun you carry and such, to display it openly, something that I have littel issue with. I wish VA would allow open carry, would allow people I know to avoid being harassed by delinquents. I mean, who would approach a person carrying a shotgun with intent to hurt?

LEO's have a right to investigate CRIME, and suspicion of a CRIME being committed. They have no "right" to investigate the carrying of firearms, absent other suspicion of an actual crime being committed, unless carrying that firearm is a crime by itself. You wish VA would allow open carry? Really?!? Anybody legal to possess a firearm in Virginia is legal to open carry that firearm in Virginia with no license required including the open carrying of a handgun at age 18 and above!

http://www.opencarry.org/va.html

I don't understand why "pro-2A" and "pro-gun" people would think that carrying a firearm warrants LEO's attention in any way, let alone gives LEO the "right" to investigate the carrying of that firearm.

 

[zoom6zoom]

I wish VA would allow open carry

Huh? Virginia has had open carry, no permit required, for quite a while. There is a very active OC community. Check out the Virginia subforum at opencarry.org. Very few hassles anymore, the cops have pretty much been trained that it's legal.

 

[texas bulldog]

I wish VA would allow open carry

Um...I'm pretty sure it does.


EDIT: Dang, zoom6zoom just beat me to it.

 

[Gouranga]

personally it still seems like open-carry should be the proper way; it does weaken law enforcement though

You know I carry a pocket knife hooked to my front pocket every where I go. It is obvious I have it. No cop has ever stopped me to ask me if I am the lawful owner of the knife.

Should the police be stopping me all the time to make sure my car is not stolen? How about my house? They have no idea if I am the legal owner or if i have killed the legal owner and buried them in the back yard.

If I am not committing a crime or threatening anyone (I mean actually threatening not just because some raging anti gets the shivers seeing my holstered weapon) it is not business of the police what I am doing where I am going, or whether anything on my person is mine, borrowed, or stolen.

I don't think it is the gov't concern how or if I am carrying a weapon. OC or CC, I am a law abiding citizen. In 36 years, including traffic violations, I can count on a single hand the number of times I have been charged with breaking the law (2 speeding tickets, 1 failure to follow established routes) and 1 of those 3 was thrown out cause it was BS. So why should I be harassed by any LEO?

 

[BBQLS1]

Where does the constitution imply anything on open or concealed carry?

 

[GEM]

It would be the debate on what 'bear' means. Now, where's my popcorn to watch this.

Heller and McDonald didn't speak to that and, of course, I am a constitutional expert - being on the Internet.

 

[Frank Ettin]

If I'm correct, when the Constitution was written it pertained to Open Carry, as Concealed Carry was more for criminals....

I can't imagine what gave you that idea.

...if we keep winning legal battles do you see the courts choosing Open Carry over Concealed Carry?

I sure hope not. Open carry could be a serious nuisance in lousy weather. I wouldn't want to be limited to open carry when it gets cold or when it rains.

 

[DCR]

+1 NavyLT.

I'd only add that the government and LEO's don't have "rights" - they have authority to engage in investigations, and only under the circumstances you outlined pursuant to the 4th Amendment. Citizens have rights.

 

[hiawatha]

Geckgo, LA is the one state whose CC permits are not recognized in AR. I'm told that's because of the process for obtaining a CC permit in LA. As far as AR knows, LA has no training requirement, and LEO has complete discretion on issuing CCs with no guidelines. True?

 

[hickorynut]

Here in IL. we are still trying to regain our right to carry in any form. With our recently elected govener it doesn't look good for another four years.

 

[orionengnr]

"Constitutional carry" is the only thing that will satisfy me, in all states. But I think that will take some time. And that's a crying shame.

Baby steps...we'll get there. As long as we stick together.

 

[Dean1818]

1) Vote
2) See Number 1... repeat
3) Be a VERY SAFE and responsible gun owners
3) Let your voice be heard (In an appropriate manner)

The kids are taught today that the constitution is a "LIVING" document
When you hear that... speak up LOUDLY...... thats codeword for CHANGABLE

For me. I live in the neighborhood of a bigger city and CC suits me just fine.

If I lived in the country, where guns are not a "fearful" thing I think OC would be ok.

My problem is with where most of the voting public lives... In the CITY

Where they are brainwashed by their liberal teachers and media that ALL GUNS ARE BAD.

I have had people tell me that when they OC in a public place in the city (Not here in Texas of course) that NO ONE WAS ALARMED...... I cant read minds, but I know enough people that are EXTREMELY nervous when they see them out or in the open
unless its an LE.

This VOTING populace is very much an out-of-sight, out-of-mind type.

The recent supreme court ruling on Chicago guns was ONLY 5-4.....its not time to get
overconfident

I just hope that none of the current conservative judges decide to retire....... we would have HUGE problems

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Allowing citizens to open-carry basically takes away the right of law enforcement to investigate whether a person is legally carrying a firearm or not.

Agree with the above: OC does not give Police the authority to investigate you just because you have a gun.

From a recent MSP (Michigan State Patrol) legal update:

Officers are reminded that the Fourth Amendment protects citizens from unreasonable searches and seizures. Carrying a non-concealed firearm is generally legal. Officers may engage in a consensual encounter with a person carrying a non-concealed pistol; however, in order to stop a citizen, officers are required to have reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot. For example, officers may not stop a person on the mere possibility the person may be carrying an unregistered pistol. Officers must possess facts rising to the level of reasonable suspicion to believe the person is carrying an unregistered pistol.

 

[AL Ranger]

Currently, according to OCDO, there are 43 states that have some sort of Open Carry. The following states: TX, AR, FL, SC and OK are currently working to get OC legal in their states. Some states, like TN, require a license and then you decide whether to OC or CC. Here in AL, you can OC with no license required but you need your CCW to carry in a vehicle or concealed on your person. Laws vary widely as to how and when you can OC.