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Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies (RANT)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Keyser Soze, Jan 27, 2004.

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  1. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Member

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    Since 1997 I have owned a Standard Modael Scattergun Technologies Remington 870. I carry it as my primary long gun on duty everyday I work. This fall I realized that the Tritium inserts on the sights are completely out.

    I send an email to Wilson/Scatterguns in September indicating that I purchased the gun in 1997 and was it still under warranty. A short time later I get a reply from one of their customer service representitives. He indicates that it is still under warranty and they will fix the sights. He also goes on to tell me I can just send in the rear sight and barrel with the front sight.

    In November I send another email on where to send the rear sight and barrel.

    I was sent the address and told who to send it to ( Attention ________). Because of a really busy three months at work (huge caseload,warrants, etc) I wasn't able to send it off till just after the first of January. Well the barrell and sights have sat there for the last two and a half weeks. Yesterday I send and email to check on the status of my warranty repair. Later the next day I get get an email that indicates that since my gun is 8 years old and wasn't made by Wilson that the will not warranty my sights.

    Now I am just alittle upset as I sent emails inquiring about my warranty prior to ever sending anything to Wilson. I also attached all emails and replies when corresponding to Wilson through email. I tried to call a supervisor there today but only was able toleave a voice mail.

    My concern is twofold. First they tell me that my sights are warranted and never once during any correspondence do they say otherwise. The whole time they were aware that my gun was purchased in 1997 from Scatterguns Technologies. Second even though Wilson bought Scatterguns Technologies in 2000 and proudly list them as a division of Wilson Combat on their website they appearantly will not warranty any work on Scatterguns Technologies guns that were built prior to them purchasing the company. So basically if you own one of these guns you have no warranty or repair recourse other than going to a local smith. The gun is identical to what Wilson is selling today with the exception of Armor Coat finishing as an option. My gun is identical to the current standard model.

    So my question is what do I do? I am in a bind and need my barrel and rear sight back ASAP as I do not currently have a long gun with me at work. They also told me at the begining that they wer covered. One would think that Wilson would have taken care of the previous Scatterguns Tech customers when they bought the company.

    I am just a little upset now.

    I have all the emails and would gladly send them to anyone privately and not on the board.

    KS
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2004
  2. glocksman

    glocksman Member

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    I'd call a lawyer.

    If Wilson just bought ST as a company, they also assumed the debts and responsibilities of ST, including warranty work.

    If ST was bankrupt and Wilson bought ST assets (such as the trademark, designs, and existing stock), then Wilson probably doesn't have to honor your warranty.

    At the very least, Wilson should have sent you the barrel and rear sight back by now.

    BTW, thanks for the heads up.
    **adds Wilson to the list of 'never buy from' companies**
     
  3. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    I think the both of you are jumping the gun a little bit.

    KS, until you get a response from a supervisor or manager, all you've got is one rep saying it's covered and another saying it's not. You do not yet have a definitive response from the company. Address a query to Bill Wilson personally.

    glocksman, you could at least wait for something solid before putting a company on your s--t list.
     
  4. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Yea, or you could just save money and buy a whole new gun. I really dont think hiring a lawyer is going to be an efficient way of dealing with this.
    The lawyer will cost you as much or more than a new gun.

    I would quit piddling around with email; it is much easier for them to turn you down with an impersonal email. Call them. Talk to a human supervisor. Explain that you were told this would be done under warranty. Explain you are unhappy.

    Wilson has extremely good customer service in general. They value customer satisfaction, and I bet they might end up doing this work under warranty as promised.

    Keep us posted though, I would like to know how this turns out.
     
  5. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    I as well.
     
  6. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Member

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    LG- this is what I plan to do and have said as much on the voicemail. I fully intend to take it all the way to Bill Wilson if I have to. But I shouldn't have to. Its this run around that really torques me. Does anyone know if Benelli has better customer service? J/K ;)

    I don't believe ST was in any fianacial straits when Wilson aquired them.

    I will keep the board updated good or bad.

    The ST gun has been flawless in function and is a solid gun. The tritium going out is the ony problem I have had to date.


    KS
     
  7. HarryB

    HarryB Member

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    On the Flip Side...

    Had a nasty jam with my 1911 over the weekend. Turns out the follower in my 47D mag somehow broke. One phone call and two minutes later a new follower is shipped out to my house. No hassle, questions, or BS. Just good service!

    Get a manager!
     
  8. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Member

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    Update--

    I left three voicemails with the supervisor yesterday. I called Wilson/ST today and finally got through to the supervisor. He asked me if I had received the email the customer service rep sent me. I told him that I had not since I was at work and did not have access to my personal account.

    He told me that he had sat down with Bill last night and they decided to meet me half way and just charge me cost to fix the tritium inserts. He told me that the tritium sights were really only warranted for 6 years. I said it was my understanding that most if not all tritium sight are warranted between 10-12 years. I asked about his customer service rep telling me that the gun and sights were still under warranty. He told me that the rep had made a mistake and he was sorry for it. He asked me what more I wanted. I said that I just wanted them to warrant the sights. But if this would stop the grief I was experiencing I would meet them half way and pay the cost to fix my sights. I also stated that I would only be halfway happy with that resolution. I asked if Wilson/ST would warranty guns made by Scattergun Technologies prior to Wilson Combat Purchasing them. He told me that they will review it on a case by case basis.
    I take that to mean that they will only stand 100% behind ST guns built after Wilson purchased them.

    When I got home I checked my email from the customer service rep. He indicated the same as far as replacing the inserts at cost, apologizing for the other reps statement that it was covered. This statement bothers me though " we can not warranty a product that we did not sell in the first place." No they did not sell it but the did buy the company that did.

    If I buy a Chrysler and they get bought by Daimler Benz will they still honor my warranty on my Chrysler? Even though I bought it when Chrysler was owned by Chrysler.

    I just don't understand why if they bought the company and the shotguns are built to the exact same specs what the issue is.

    I decided to pay the money to bring this experience to a close. I am not truly happy with the results but the replacement cost was still much much cheaper than paying for a full sight replacement. Once I get my gun back,
    I for one will never do business with Wilson again and will do my best to discourage all those I work with to do the same. I do think Wilson Combat/ Scattergun Technologies makes some great products. The service I have received has been less than stellar. I think this has been a fiasco and if their rep screwed up and they received my part in their shop they should have ate the cost, kept a good reputation and changed their policy in the future or indicate such on their website concerning the ST guns built prior to their takeover.

    There may very well be a Benelli in my future.

    End of rant I hope this will help others when they consider a purchase from WC/ST.
    :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

    KS
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2004
  9. Balog

    Balog Member

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    I'd have never bought one of thier products any way, but this is additional good info.
     
  10. Rob62

    Rob62 Member

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    Keyser Soze,

    I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. It has been my personal experience that Wilson/ST is a good company to deal with.

    Years ago, when they had just bought out the original Scattergun Tech. Company I had a "Remington Steal" rebuild done on an old beater 870. As part of the rebuild they replaced the fore end cap with a new style cap.

    Since I don't like the new style fore end caps I called them and asked them for the original which I had sent in with the gun. They informed me that would be no problem and sent an old style fore end cap out via USPS prioity mail at no cost.

    It is good to know that they apparently will not stand 100% behind older ST built guns. I'm sure they are just trying to limit the amount of $$ they have to spend on these guns that were not modified by them, but considering everything I would think those costs would be minimal and easily absorbed. Specially considering what they are charging for newly built (modified) guns.

    Regards,

    Rob
     
  11. tc300mag1

    tc300mag1 Member

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    Thats good to know i dont own a gun from either of them but makes me think i would pass as expensive as guns are from them
     
  12. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Yea, I am surprised they are giving you a hard time about this.

    Maybe email the supervisor a link to this thread?

    As of right now, this thread has been viewed 545 times. Thats a lot of bad PR for Wilson, and the people who frequent here are the ones likely to spend big money on guns.
     
  13. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Member

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    I don't want them to see this thread until I get my barrel and rear sight back. I don't need my POI changing due to a severe bend in the barrel. ;)

    KS
     
  14. DMK

    DMK Member

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    I'm no lawyer and don't know what the law says, but *all things equal*, the statement by glocksman describes honest, ethical, business practice.

    OTOH, the flip side is perhaps ST didn't have such a great warranty in the first place and would have charged full price to repair your gun if Wilson didn't own them today. Perhaps Wilson is now judging the repair work against Wilson's warranty standards on a case by case basis and trying not to get themselves in a huge hole due to ST having bought a few inferior parts to cut corners. If that were the case, you wouldn't be coming out that bad.
     
  15. Detritus

    Detritus Member

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    my thoughts exactly...... what concrete advantage does having a gun built by ST/wilson actually HAVE to most of us??

    there are a few things their guns have that are not readily available on an off the shelf gun, but most of those features are things that could be done either at home or by a local gunsmith for well below what wilson/ST want for guns that well quite frankly seem to become "ubertactical" just because they have that name on the side someplace....

    no thanks

    esp with THIS type of customer service, this smells of "hey let's milk this guy b/c we have an EXCUSE TO"
     
  16. schadenfreude

    schadenfreude Member

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    Thanks for posting your experience.

    I was getting ready this week to place a large accessory order with Wilson for several 19911 parts, mags, and accessories.

    I'm not going to at this point. I don't like the attitude and it's too easy to take my $$$ to one of the other companies.

    They need to realize that this is a new era of consumerism and a single offhand comment by some hump in customer service can lose them 100 customers in 5 minutes thanks to global communities like these. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Amish_Bill

    Amish_Bill Member

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    Good luck on getting a good resolution. A friend is still going ound and round with them to get the sights fixed on his CQB. They tell him that he's not shooting straight. Two other CQB owners shoot his left like he does, and he shoots their's straight.

    Stories like these are why I smiled so much when I read about the Kimber Tactical series.

    I'm still thinking of getting a handful of their 8 round mags though. Except for the odd story about their followers breaking, I've heard nothing but good about them.
     
  18. Norm357

    Norm357 Member

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    Why didnt you call and ask for Bill himself? I have never had a problem getting him on the phone.
     
  19. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    On a related note, have they stopped making models based on the 1187P? I don't see it listed on the wilsoncombat.com site.
     
  20. Joe Mamma

    Joe Mamma Member

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    Yeah, Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies sucks. I sent a new 870 to them before and would NEVER send a gun to them again. I had many bad experiences with them from just this one gun. To give you the quick story, I had to wait months for the work to get done, mismatched and incorrect parts were installed, and one of the "new" parts was rusted. Here is the long story:

    http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1125101#post1125101

    Joe Mamma
     
  21. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    Of course Wilson CAN stand behind a product they didn't sell. Most manufacturers do this when they acquire another company.

    BUSHMASTER stands behind the warranty on every Professional Ordnance Carbon-15.

    It is only good business (but "good business" is seldom understood in the firearms industry). There IS a reason why Bushmaster is SO successful.
     
  22. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    KS,

    Thank you for the follow-up after reaching a supervisor. I WAS planning to get a Wilson for CCW this spring but, based on what I've read here, I think I'll explore other options.
     
  23. Amish_Bill

    Amish_Bill Member

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    Car Knocker -

    -- compare the Wilson CQB and the Kimber Tactical. They seem to be similar in most ways.... except price. (or the Kimber CDP - I like mine...)
     
  24. tc300mag1

    tc300mag1 Member

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    Unless things have a changed just a few years ago maybe 5 there was a article i think in american handgunner that Kimber made the slides frames and most small parts for Wilson only difference was the barrel.. Anyone know if this has changed..
     
  25. Pylon

    Pylon Member

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    Wow thanks for sharing this customer service story. This really makes me rethink the way i think about this campany. For all that wonderful customer service literature they spout on the website

    "You Get the Best Guaranteed Customer Service" and 'YOU WILL BE EXTREMELY SATISFIED"

    I think they might be taking those statements a little too far. Even if they did just single Keyser Soze out, and he is not a textbook example of what how customer service is like for the rest of us, what says that they won't treat us the same way? I mean, at the rediculous prices that WC products cost, i would expect unquestionable service and a free complentry gun thrown in, literally, just for calling.

    As minor as this case may be to WC, i assure them to the individual customer like Keyser Soze, this is a big deal, especially when it comes to firearms that might possibly save a life one day.

    Little incidents like this speak loud on the internet. Wilson Combat should take note.
     
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