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Winchester 1894 30 WCF (30-30) dates 1943

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Clint C, Mar 5, 2009.

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  1. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    I have just traded into a Winchester 1894 30 WCF (30-30) dates 1943 and is a carbine. I don't know what ammo to shoot through it. I mean what grain and velocity of ammo should I fire through the carbine?

    I havn't recieved it yet as it is coming from Las Vegas and shipped today.

    Thanks, Clint
     
  2. Runningman

    Runningman Member

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    Sure about the date? My Winchester serial number book shows none made between 1943 - 1948.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2009
  3. Harve Curry

    Harve Curry Member

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    30 WCF is the old terminology for the 30-30. It is all the same thing.
    Kinda a neat you have one made during WWII. Does yours have anything on the tang, Winchester or drilled for a tang sight? Also the forearm should be 1 1/2" ahead of the barrel band. The front barrel band could be the standard contoured one or the WWII expedient flat strap barrel band.
    Also the butt plate is probably checkered steel.
    Providing your rifle is in good shape, any factory 30-30 ammo is safe for it. They don't make 30-30's any better then the one you have.
     
  4. salvo

    salvo Member

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    Congrats, I have a bunch of pre 64 Model 94's
    Actually Winchester did make them between 1943-48 the reason they cant date them the records were lost in a fire.
    Here is my 1942 Model 94.

    Winchester94-1943-48-2.gif

    IMG_0587.gif

    IMG_0604.gif

    Double check your serial number against this post. The polishing room records have found errors in most of the books and web sites that date Winchesters.
    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=245213
     
  5. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    Serial number is 1234xxx. My bluebook shows last one made in 1942 was 1221289, 1943-1947 have no record available. In 1948 1500000 was the last one made. I guess it could have been made in 1948. I just assumed since it was so close to 1942 that it was made in 1943. I don't have anything that says nothing was made in 1943-1947. I do have material that says they were made from 1940-1964. Now with 1221289 being the last one made in 1942 and 1500000 being the last one made in 1948 that means they put out 278,711 serial numbers between 1943 and 1948. So I am ASSUMING my rifle was made some where in there and with it only being about 13200 serial numbers after the last one in 1942 I assumed it was made in 1943. 278,711 serial numbers is a lot to make in one year compared to their usual 30-40 thousand they made a year. If you divide 278,711 by 6 years that leaves you with 46,452 serial numbers a year. six years coming from 1943-1948 counting all years including 1948. Does this make since or is this not how the serial number system works? There are no records in these years so it is a mystery and I am glad to own a piece of this mystery. I will not be getting this rifle till next week as I made a trade online and it just shipped today.

    Salvo that is a nice rifle. Mine is not as nice but I traded a pistol for it and came out good on the deal.

    Here are some pictures of the carbine that were sent to me.

    DSC00317.jpg

    DSC00323.jpg

    DSC00325.jpg

    Thanks to all, Clint
     
  6. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    Date? It's a mystery!

    Salvo according to the thread you attached my carbine was made in 1942. I'll have to do some more digging around.

    Thanks, Clint
     
  7. salvo

    salvo Member

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    Clint, mine also was in the 43-48 years until Bert H contacted me and said it was a 42. It was a relief to be able to date it, Im glad it worked out for you also. That is a good looking 94 and it has all the pre war features!
     
  8. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    Thanks

    This is getting very interesting! Thanks for the info. Where do you get it all, or is it all stored in your head?
     
  9. salvo

    salvo Member

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    All the little bits of information is what makes the old 94 interesting to collect, I wish I knew more, but at least it is fun learning.
     
  10. jim in Anchorage

    jim in Anchorage Member

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    The Madis book is the bible,IMO. His 94 SNs only go to 1932,however,so I can not help the OP.
     
  11. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    Here is a argument I found on anouther site. I thought it was interesting.

    post 16
    The records are available at Cody up to just under 400,000. All shipping records after that number are lost. I don't when the fire actually occurred. We also know that the Date of Mfg. list that are in use are inaccurate because of verified shipping dates from outside sources. We know that guns in the 1,33X,XXX range were shipped to Canada in 1943. We know that guns in the 1,240,XXX range were shipped in the summer of 1940. So how would 1,200,XXX have sat in a corner for 3 or 4 years to be shipped in 1942? It is possible but I cannot believe it unless verified.

    Another strange fact, That same incorrect DOM list show the highest numbered 94 made in 1894 was serial number 14,579. The factory records at Cody show the highest assign SN was 1674 but the highest number shipped was SN 1380. Who do you think is correct?

    post 17
    I would venture ( someone else's ) guess , that while working on whatever Winchester was for the war , that lever guns were not much of a priority and the assorted parts were warehoused for the most part. Bins and crates may have come out of storage backwards ( higher #s last to go in and first to come out ) A receiver made in '40 could very well not have been matted with barrel , stock ect. and shipped out for several years.

    But like I said , just a guess someone else made and it seemed to make sense the way they wrote it.

    post 18
    You are talking about a few guns being out of sequence, indeed that did happen. I'm talking about the DOM list being incorrect which has nothing to do with guns getting misplaced at the factory
     
  12. Heck

    Heck Member

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    thought my 42 was in the last bunch that was made and until after WWII
     
  13. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Several have pointed out that Wichester was deeply involved in converting the factory and doing war time production of M-1 Garands during those years.

    There were no commercial guns made except those going to the military or law enforcement.

    After the war, the factory was converted back to sporting arms production and the manufacture & sale of 94's resumed.

    They still were using up receivers that had been in storage during the war.

    The only sure way to tell when the gun was assembled & shipped, other then a Cody letter, is to take off the magazine tube.

    It should have a date stamped on the bottom of the barrel just in front of the receiver indicating when that happened.

    rc
     
  14. salvo

    salvo Member

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    I'm pretty sure the flat bands were war time guns?
     
  15. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    Can you dry fire these?
     
  16. salvo

    salvo Member

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    I wouldn't, I have heard of broken firing pins from dry firing. Most gun shops have snap caps for 30-30 though.
     
  17. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    I never thought about snap caps, thanks Salvo.
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    +1

    Do Not dry-fire any of the old Winchester lever guns.

    Dry-fire firing pin breakage is a known problem, especially on 92's.
    But 94's are also subject to it.

    They never break in actual use, firing real ammo.

    rc
     
  19. 280shooter

    280shooter Member

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    I have one with a smooth butt plate,
    ser. 151 71xx

    I had looked it up awhile back and all i could find was 1948,, is that right?

    this has been in the family since new, it was passed down to me from my Great Aunt,
     
  20. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    280shooter

    It looks to me that your rifle was made in the year 1949, according to my Blue Book of Gun Values, but another list may put it earlier. My book says 1500000 as the last serial number made in 1948. Like I said though I am finding out that this list could be off by a bit.

    rcmodel suggest to look on the underside of the barrel for a date. I well be doing this to mine as soon as I get it, maybe tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  21. 280shooter

    280shooter Member

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    would the date be stamped under the forend,? because i don't see any date.else where. but I can live with the fact that my 30-30 was built in 49,
    like I said the butt stock. has a smooth metal plate,I dont know when they started making them plastic,
     
  22. 280shooter

    280shooter Member

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  23. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    They started to make them plastic in 1965 is what I get from reading. 1964 was the last year they made them with a metal butt plate. The reason for this was to still produce it and sell it for a cheaper price.

    Is the butt plate smooth metal, chekered metal, or smooth metal with lines in it like mine?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  24. salvo

    salvo Member

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    Here is my 1965 it has a metal butt plate, hard to tell what a transition 94 ends up with. I think they used what ever parts they had at the time.

    IMG_5159.jpg

    Winchester941965-2.jpg
     
  25. Clint C

    Clint C Member

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    Well I picked it up today! Man is this thing awesome. I went out and shot it six times. I was hitting water filled pop bottles at 45 yards no problem. So far I would say it is very accurate. I bought some of that Hornady 160 grain Leverevolution and shot a big chunk of ice with it. It really didn't do any damage, but when I shot the same chunks of ice with Federal 150 grain soft point FN the ice exploded. It looked like someone shot it with a tank! Is the Leverevolution a ballistic tip or is it more like a full metal jacket? What ammo do you guys like to hunt and target shoot with? Anyways I love this carbine!
     
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