Winchester 1897 problem and interesting barrel

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I've been watching videos of other people doing it and theirs seem to pop out real simple like.
 
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Confusion verily abounds.

I will try to assemble the pertinent points that some have caught, and some left unsaid.

The spare barrel shown is a solid frame barrel, but the shotgun in question is a takedown version.
The Model 12 had no solid frame version until decades later, a simplified and less dressy appearing version called the Model 25.
That barrel could not be for a standard Model 12 or a takedown model 97.
The appearance of the solid frame threads is a good bit coarser pitch than the threads of a disassembled takedown barrel without the barrel extension, but has the same thread pitch (but not diameter) as the external threads of the adjusting sleeve used on the takedown, but with dissimilar features.

Notice that the gun pictured has a magazine takedown pin and magazine band; both are hallmarks of a takedown version. The solid frame has a plug end in the magazine tube that enters a hole in the barrel band that does not surround the tube - just the barrel, and naturally is also absent the barrel extension.

There is a magazine retaining screw only on the solid frame version M-97, so any screw in that general area on the takedown version would be either the chamber ring retaining screw (about 3/32" dia.) by the ejection port or the takedown adjusting sleeve lock screw (about 1/8" dia. headless) in the side of the barrel extension.
That's the screw noted by R-McM in post #15 and 17, but as figured out, is not a mag. tube retaining screw.


The stock round knob configuration was a common style on early 97's, along with the metal buttplate in Neidner configuration. That was one of the stocks I carved in gunsmithing school.

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"The proper sequence is to rack the slide back. (Takedown) push mag pin through to the other side, rotate mag tube 1/4 turn, mag should come out partially. Rack the slide to locked position firmly and the mag tube, fore end with action bar attached should come out of the receiver."
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There really is no need to open the bolt on a Model 97 or Model 12 during takedown procedures, and there should be no need to slam the forend/bolt closed after opening to get a magazine tube to slide forward. Why use the slide as a slide hammer? I've only seen that done by a clown masquerading as a gunsmith to prove an improperly assembled 97 that he had reblued could come apart without tools. The goof had improperly assembled the magazine tube components. I had to demonstrate in front of him that the assembly was wrong, and after rework of the assembly, the magazine tube freely slid out with two fingers. Taught an old horse a new trick that day.

By the way, no need to mention both the magazine locking screw (for the solid frame) and the interrupted threads of the takedown magazine tube in procedures, since the gun couldn't have both features. Also, the interrupted threads typically will not disengage in either direction, since usually the helix of the thread binds before passing the interrupted cut in the threads in the frame. In other words, expect that tubes only "back out"- and don't usually "front out".
The magazine plug/barrel guide also inhibits rotation beyond the inbuilt stop limits when assembled.

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Here are your most likely answers.

The magazine tube plug (end cap) is improperly assembled and won't allow sufficient rotation to disengage the interrupted threads from the frame

The tube threads have been severely deformed or the edge of the barrel extension interferes with the withdrawal due to raised burrs or deformity

Some or all of the above

Kirby
[email protected]
Winchester Specialist gunsmith
 
I've read your answer a couple times. I can't seem to make out what the screw is on the ejection port side, at the joint. Seems like an either or answer.

Holding the wooden fore end, and pulling forward was how I was taught to do it, by a Gunsmith.

I do appreciate you jumping in, I've been trying to get John Browning on my ouiga board for 3 days.:scrutiny:
 
kirbythegunsmith,

wow thank you so much for coming in and typing all of that out! It is much appreciated sir. At this point I'm fairly certain the magazine tube was assembled incorrectly. From working on the gun so far I've been spotting things put in backwards. installed wrongly. etc.

I'm going to begin researching how to disassemble the magazine tube.
 
HOLY CRAP THANK KIRBY I GOT IT! The ignoramous who last had my gun had installed the magazine tube incorrectly and it just popped out when I took it apart! I could kiss you but my wife wouldn't be happy! Thank you thank you thank you!
 
kirby, since the thread was becoming a cluster and everything but hammers was used, I inserted the "clown" instructions to see if it would work.

I am aware of the solid frames having the mag tube screw (I have two nice specimens) but again, the bouncing ball was coming of the walls.

Your comparison of these instructions to a clown and a goof is an insult. Like most "gunsmiths", the "dont suffer fools" attitude exists whether needed or not.
 
Red Cent and McMarlin I as well thank you both for your patience with me as you took the time to offer fixes! Thank you all!

Update: After much swearing I finally figured out how to put my 1897 back together. Hurraaayyy. If I don't post after this it means I put it together wrong and it blew up and killed me while shooting skeet.
 
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I am happy that the owner has figured out the details of his problem.

I might mention that certain particulars are incorrect or not necessary in proper mechanism assemblages, and if one technique is only going to work by the application of force, I am less likely to overlook that in favor of a disassembly procedure, rather than a hammeritis technique.

I do not lightly offer opinions pertaining to incorrect details or instructions, and my reference to one specific person as a clown was only meant for that person, since that specific one was in the side business of repairing and reblue through the shop I had formerly worked at in past times.

If someone wishes to imbue my statement with more than one spot of specificity, that can be their own assumption that was definitely unspoken and not mentioned as applying to anyone else for the reason that nobody else had represented themselves as a gunsmith.
Thus, the clown label applies where it was placed, and no other spot was chosen by me.

I am not going to make any implication left unsaid if I believe it applies, but any statement by me is not expected to be more than was stated.
The difference between an insult and a correction can correlate to the obvious experience level of the recipient, so don't take offense when correction is needed and sufficient.
I have been known to have mistakes in details and don't take insult if I slip in a description, so I will offer a pass on the intention to reverse the remark.

The information that I provide is in the realm of gunsmith instruction, so don't expect to get a lightweight response to a situation that requires an "information-heavy" posting.

Kirby
 
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