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Winchester exporting ammunition

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by twarr1, Sep 4, 2021.

  1. twarr1

    twarr1 Member

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    According to Panjiva Inc, the supply chain intelligence company, Winchester has been exporting ammunition from the USA;

    “Winchester has logged 107 shipments since January 2020. Most went to Australia to fulfill a contract Winchester secured with NIOA, the country’s largest small-arms supplier. Nigel Everingham, NIOA’s chief operating officer, said he could not disclose how much ammo Winchester is supplying.
    A few shipments also went to Belgium and Israel.”

    While it’s not good for American buyers, Winchester is in business to make money. What are your thoughts?
    Personally, I’ve seen Winchester quality drop dramatically in the last few years to the point I avoid it when possible.
     
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  2. e rex

    e rex Member

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    twarr1, I'm with you, I believed the "big demand" thing for a while but I think we are getting screwed on this shortage thing now.
     
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  3. Theinkman

    Theinkman Member

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    If they have a contract with another entity, that is a priority. Very bad business to break a contract; just like it is for you and I.
     
  4. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    I can’t say that I think anything about it. Corporations have no loyalties or principles other than that of the fiduciary obligation to their stock holders - the stockholder’s only concern is a stock value increase, to their wallets. Anything else that a corporation pretends to care about is strictly in the interest of a stock price increase, nothing more - “A corporation is a mindless entity established for the sole purpose of making money.” - there is nothing more to think about.
    Any caring for customers is a means to an end - to make money. If a corporation could make money without a single customer or a single employee, it would do that.
    I have not purchased any Winchester ammo in many years so I can’t speak to the quality. Quality degradation is part of Americana - to increase profits, corporations are constantly playing with ways to save money in the manufacturing if their products - in many examples, that playing results in lost quality. Yes, free enterprise (Capitalism) has it’s dark side also.
     
  5. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    NIOA apparently is the largest distributor for LE, and to some extent military. If they're sent ammo to fulfill their own obligations to government entities, then so be it.
    Remember, Australia is the beacon of light all the gun control advocates reference in how to solve gun "problems". So I doubt that much of any ammo being imported by them is hitting the shelves in retail spaces.
     
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  6. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    That
     
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  7. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Any business expecting to last long doesn’t look months down the road or do things for short term gain while loosing sight of long term goals.

    If they had a contract with the largest supplier of an entire Country, they would be idiots to take advantage for a short term spike in our market, just to have their stuff cover shelves once everyone gets their fill again.

    FWIW, I didn’t go through all of them but the ones I looked at were Federal, Remington, CCI, Eley, SK or Lapua, Ammunition/primers.

    https://www.nioa.com.au/products/ammo
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
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  8. rust collector
    • Contributing Member

    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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    We keep expecting corporations and politicians to act in our best interests. Why? Because a huge segment of our society is busily engaged in creating and supporting the delusion that we can buy happiness or people that will make us happy. Here's to the advertising business, which has us checking our collars, smelling our armpits, and demanding that our physicians give us the good stuff. :confused:
     
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  9. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    What shortage?

    We have ammo. It's just 250% of its decent value. Its dropping in price, as supply stacks up. 9mm is down to 200%ish at my LGS.

    Winchester hasn't been very popular. I just dont see it too often. Browning, Federal, Am Eagle, and Blazer are my local go to's.

    That being said, Winchester shotgun shells are all I run in 12s.

    Big contracts keep companies in buisness. I won't judge Winchester for trying to stay alive. Contracts have to be filled. It's likely a legal contract.

    From what I've heard, all the ammo companies are fairly small companies, running at 100% capacity, if materials come in on time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2021
  10. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    I've not seen any drop in Winchester ammo quality in the last few years, but then again, about all I use for factory ammo is shotgun. If Winchester had a major contract to fulfill, then good business sense says they need to fulfill it. Like ammo, gas and oil prices are very volatile in our country. Most folks think it's because of the cost of the foreign oil we import. Fact is, we are on track to becoming the largest exporter of oil and natural gas in the world. Living in a world economy, we need to export products or quit importing anything. As for making money, kinda what being in business is all about. A year ago Olin Corp's(owner of Winchester brands) stock price was about 11 dollars a share. Today that same share is worth about $50.
     
  11. doubleh

    doubleh Member

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    Fulfilling a "contract" is the key. I wouldn't mind a bit if they shipped ever round of 22 LR they make to another country. Their centerfire ammo is much better.
     
  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Non event except for employment and shareholder returns.
     
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  13. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Wwb did have a few bad years. It seems fine now.
     
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  14. entropy

    entropy Member

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    It still beats having one choice, of poor quality, and having to wait in a line for it. ;)

    FWIW; Winchester's premium lines, though expensive, have retained a modicum of quality. With the future of Remington STS and Nitro lines of shells bleak, the AA remains the only premium clays round (made in the US, anyway.) Before you mention Federal, only one Federal loading has brass bases, and they are unobtanium currently. (Even more so than all the rest.) I'll be shooting AA's tomorrow for a Jackpot shoot. :)
     
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  15. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    No reason to. Captive consumers are the best customers.
     
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  16. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    The owners...mutual funds, pension plans, annuities, plans, individual shareholders, and all--demand that the businesses serve their best interests, and when they do not, the officers of the corporations are replaced.
     
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  17. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

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    My thoughts are those are all cool countries and I’ve had the pleasure of visiting Belgium. Nice folks, amazing beer.

    I’m just glad they’re getting any ammo at all considering the strict gun laws in those countries. We as Americans consume titanic amounts of ammo made in other countries. It seems frankly arrogant to expect every round made here to stay in the country when there is a world of fellow shooters out there.

    I know this won’t be a popular opinion but there’s that.
     
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  18. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Went by Dunham's in the mall today and they had ammo on the shelves including Winchester.
    A few months ago the store shelves were bare.
    Looks to me like Winchester ammo is going to whomever Winchester had contracts to supply.
     
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  19. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    Browning is Winchester, at least right now. If you look at the Winchester recall, there are Browning labels included.

    Federal, American Eagle and Blazer are all under the Federal brand.

    If you objectively look at the "shortage", you MUST consider the imports as a major factor. Sellier & Bellot, Fiocchi, PPU, Magtech, PMC etc- those were all common options to buy in many calibers. S&B and PPU sold a lot of rifle rds, not just pistol. There was never a realistic way that "just American brands" would restock the shelves, because they didn't before this happened.

    It would be like if there was a real gasoline crisis, and then demanding that ONLY Exxon "fix" that. You need Shell, Chevron, BP, etc.
     
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  20. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Cool. In that case Winchester has improved. All of my Browning ammo has been 100%.
     
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  21. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    Just goes to show, you can't arbitrarily hang on a name nowadays. A lot of them are just labels on a box, they don't make anything. Herter's- used to be made until recently by S&B, now made by Winchester. Monarch is PPU if brass, not sure which Russian (Barnaul maybe?) if steel. Most all ammo 'works' fine, we just settle into a favorite brand.
     
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  22. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    There is actually no shortage of brass or ammunition, if our Corporate Elites had not banned importation of Chinese and Russian ammunition and components. The justification for the bans are ludicrous human rights BS, and considering what else we are buying from these countries, human rights seems not to be a concern. Apple Corp uses massive slave labor in China, as an example. Ergo, it is all about limiting supply in the United States and raising profits.
     
  23. Archie

    Archie Member

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    That is the reality. A contact person at Hornady reports much the same thing; they are going full blast to catch up and all their production is going to fulfill orders - contract agreements - made last year. Much seems to be toward U. S. entities, but a contract is one's word.
    I would be quite upset if someone (anyone) abrogated a contract with me if they (the contractual partner) thought someone else 'needed it more'. Fair for the goose is fair for the gander.
     
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  24. gobsauce

    gobsauce Member

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    I just wanna find ammo,man.
     
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  25. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    ^ me too but reasonably priced.
     
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