Winchester model 12--safe to shoot?

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model86

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I recently bought an old Winchester model 12 chambered for 12 gauge shells.

This one has Nickle Steel barrel with no shell length mentioned on barrel.

Serial # indicates it was made in the 20's and chambered originally for either 2 9/16" or 2 1/2" shells.

Someone has reamed the chamber since I can get a 3" unfired shell to chamber fully in chamber.

I have shot this gun with 2 3/4" low brass shells. Is it safe to shoot it with high brass 2 3/4" shells?

Need it looked over by competent gunsmith. Anyone you guys would suggest?

model86
 
Brass length has no effect one way or the other (a sales gimmick these days)

It was likely a 2-1/2" when it started. But I and my father have been continually shooting my grandfather's 1928 2-1/2" model-12 with standard modern shells for almost 80 years now.:thumbup:
 
My best hunting buddy, now deceased used his Dad's old Browning semi auto 16 ga. shotgun. I don't recall the measurements of the chamber when it was made but 16 ga shotgun shells had been lengthened since then. The chamber had been lengthened to accept current length shells and the ejection port had also been lengthened. I witnessed a few thousand round of both high and low brass fired from the gun without a problem.
In those days I used an inherited Model 12 Winchester also 16 ga. with countless numbers of rounds shot through it as well. That gun sets in my safe as I type eager to go with countless more.
 
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Many folks think if an unfired 3" shell fits, it is safe to fire. That is not so, of course, because the crimp of the shell opens up when the shell is fired and if there is not adequate room for this, pressures can be dangerous. I am sure you have no intention of using 3" shells, but I'm not sure chambering the 3" means the original chamber has been modified.

My Dad's dad hunted with an old nickel steel M-12 that carried 5 or 6 rounds in the magazine and had been used so much there was no blue on the gun exterior whatsoever. His chamber was never modified, and it fired many thousands of 2 3/4" rounds at ducks, grouse and pheasant. If your gun is in otherwise sound condition there should be no worries, but always good to benefit from a real gunsmith's experience.
 
MEHavey said:
Brass length has no effect one way or the other (a sales gimmick these days)

It was likely a 2-1/2" when it started. But I and my father have been continually shooting my grandfather's 1928 2-1/2" model-12 with standard modern shells for almost 80 years now.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

MEHavey:

I've read that 1927 was when they went from 2 1/2" chamber to 2 3/4". There are several sources on internet to determine the year of manufacturer of your gun by submitting serial number. Mine made in 1923.

model86
 
You are correct... I went down to the basement and checked: 1924
(How time flies when you're having fun)

I do know that it was a 2½ as I had it shipped off to Wrights to get the receiver's bolt recess lockup cleaned up (from from where SOMEone was overzelous in the slamfire mode) ...and they confirmed 2½. I had them ream it to a standard 2¾".

I
 
12 ga. Model 12s were always manufactured with 2 3/4" chambers. 20 ga. models were first made in 2 1/2" chambers and were changed to 2 3/4" chambers in 1927. Early 16 ga. models came with a 2 9/16" chamber. The 2 3/4" chamber was standardized on all gauges in 1927, starting at serial #464,565.

Assuming the OP's Model 12 is in good, safe working order, any 2 3/4" lead shot 12 ga. shell is safe to shoot in it.
 
kscharlie said:
12 ga. Model 12s were always manufactured with 2 3/4" chambers. 20 ga. models were first made in 2 1/2" chambers and were changed to 2 3/4" chambers in 1927. Early 16 ga. models came with a 2 9/16" chamber. The 2 3/4" chamber was standardized on all gauges in 1927, starting at serial #464,565.

Assuming the OP's Model 12 is in good, safe working order, any 2 3/4" lead shot 12 ga. shell is safe to shoot in it.
Click to expand...
I have a 16 gauge from 1927 with the serial number 475425. Does that mean it's chambered in 2 3/4"? I've always thought it was 2 1/2".
 
MEHavey said:
You are correct... I went down to the basement and checked: 1924
(How time flies when you're having fun)

I do know that it was a 2½ as I had it shipped off to Wrights to get the receiver's bolt recess lockup cleaned up (from from where SOMEone was overzelous in the slamfire mode) ...and they confirmed 2½. I had them ream it to a standard 2¾".

I
Click to expand...
MEHavey:

Do you consider your 1924 gun safe with the more powerful 2 3/4" loadings? Double ought buck, etc.

It appears that Wrights or Simmons are the people to choose for quality work on the model 12. May send mine off, probably to Wrights.

model86
 
MEHavey said:
Brass length has no effect one way or the other (a sales gimmick these days)

It was likely a 2-1/2" when it started. But I and my father have been continually shooting my grandfather's 1928 2-1/2" model-12 with standard modern shells for almost 80 years now.:thumbup:
Click to expand...


You've been shooting 2-3/4" shells in a 2-1/2" chamber? :what:
 
Merle1 said:
You've been shooting 2-3/4" shells in a 2-1/2" chamber?
Click to expand...
Considering that there are probably thousands of old guns with short chambers still out there that are being shot still today, and have been for the last 90+ years, it goes to show how well they were proofed. It generally spikes the chamber pressure for a split second and kicks a bit more as the shot column forces it's way through the forcing cone that is sharing some of it's room with the crimp, but they are still shooting. May not be the smartest thing to do, if they are even aware of it, but I don't know of any chambers that have gone ka-boom because of it.
 
Actually, it was the standard (of the time) 2⅝" chamber
(See Post#12)

And yes... it had been shooting standard 2¾" shells since I was old enough to remember my
father using it in the Air Defense Command Skeet Championships in the late `40s. I watched
him run 100-straight with the old girl. (And I don't think it ever noticed that missing ⅛")

It's been shooting continually for 93 years now
:neener:
 
Model 12 in 12 gauge have always been built with 2 3/4 inch chambers. They also built a 3 inch chamber Heavy Duck but there is no 2 5/8 inch chamber because why would there be and for what shell?

Its a take down so somebody doesn't know how to correctly measure a frickin Model 12 chamber. Yea , I would take it to them. Excuse my French.

Is there anything that shotgun hasn't done? Olympic trap shooters won Gold medals with them, our military loved them in both world wars and beyond and hunters loved them.

http://olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotgun_m12.php
 
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Troops.... the Wrights' assessment came from a chamber cast.
At that point (chamber ring notwithstanding), "it's what it is..." and my old brigade commander would fondly observe.

(I'll see your :) and raise you one ;) )
 
I have a 12 gauge built in 1927 that is smooth as silk. I bought it to hunt waterfowl with using non toxic bismuth or tungsten matrix but it handles so well I'll use it for everything now including upland game.

They are sweet.
 
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