Certaindeaf
member
Yep and it ain't no racetrack with wide gravel runout everywhere. You can't be too careful about some things.
With all the new reloaders...
- Thread starter ShortFatHokie
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I think most of the people on THR already do that.
I know I have always tried really hard to answer the most basic questions without belittling the person who needs an answer.
But sometimes, my patience starts to wear thin after the 15'th new member in a month asking:
"What is the Most Accurate MAX load for my .300 Lounden Boomer Mangle'm rifle I just got for 1,500 yard deer hunting?
I have some Hercules Bullseye in a rusty can, some old Alcan powder in a paper bag, Lg primers in an unmarked primer flipper with tape on it, and some old green bullets in a box my grandfather left me in his will.
These have to shoot less then 1/2 MOA at 1,000 yards, at least.
What is the most accurate MAX +P load I need to load these with?"
I don't have time to play around, so give me your MAX load for my rifle that is most accurate.
Oh! Can I load 3" buckshot bullets for my Shotty with the same stuff??
Maybe not that exactly, but pretty close on almost a daily basis anymore!!
It wears on your patience after a while I TELL YA!!!!! :banghead:
rc
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Certaindeaf
member
There's been multiples a day where I'm going (to myself) "stop!". But then RC sidles up and gives the good stuff.
TenDriver
Member
Learn by doing. That's about the only way knowledge penetrates my skull. Second method is watching it be done.
I understand your concern. I'm one of those guys who's posted some pictures, asked a bunch of questions (not load data - book only for me). I don't know local folks who I can spend much time talking to asking questions, so you guys are it. Some of those questions are going to be seemingly stupid ones, but I'd rather get a funny look through a computer than blow something up.
I understand your concern. I'm one of those guys who's posted some pictures, asked a bunch of questions (not load data - book only for me). I don't know local folks who I can spend much time talking to asking questions, so you guys are it. Some of those questions are going to be seemingly stupid ones, but I'd rather get a funny look through a computer than blow something up.
blarby
Member
Very much so.
I think this is why we need to provide the most accurate and concise information possible.
I'll leave my rant about n00bs and progressive reloading presses in the past- it can be searched for if you really need it- but thats my second serious concern.
I think we can help massage the learning curve by answering questions honestly and sincerely- and providing as much clarity and detail as possible.
However, other than finding a way to mandate that everyone read the stickies, and pickup a paper manual or two before buying any tools, there isn't much we can do other than offer support.
We aren't the reloading police, nor should we be.
Mindset, skillset, toolset- in that order, right ?
We should be glad that so many want to learn the sweet science- and guide them the best we can.
FWIW- I had tools before I had books... but I had knowledge long before I had either.
I'm still confused as to what proper reloading etiquette is ? Do you need to keep the caliper on the left, or the right of the press ?
Hondo 60
Member
It's not just you.
I have (very strongly) worded cautionary posts to new reloaders on the dangers of NOT having a reloading manual or three.
Reloading without the benefit of several reloading manuals is just plain lunacy.
788Ham
Member
I've been reloading since I was 20 years old, I'm now 64, still learning the ropes, if you will. I've been fortunate to have a couple of guys who know a lot about the ins and outs of reloading, absolutely no short cuts! I've asked rc and ArchAngle questions when I'm not sure about the load, or a particular powder, I'm definitely not proud, or too proud to ask. I've learned a LOT since coming onto this forum, asking Arch about AA #5 powder for a .38 Spl load, he took the time to write out how he loads, exact bullet weight, etc., told me at the end of the email, "I hope I've answered your questions, if not, holler back." No one I've asked on here has told me to "Just read the ABC's, you'll learn in time" Not every answer will be found on the web either, you'll have to take the time, find someone who does know reloading, spend some time with them as a mentor if possible, just don't get fished off and try to fill up the case because its got some empty space left!
Texan Scott
Member
All new reloaders should be required to start with 38 special and Trail Boss. Also, demonstrate background knowledge and aptitude before any new loading press purchase.
Of course, some will argue that universal loading press registration is the only way the system could work, but I say that's silly talk.
[DUCK&COVER] Kidding! I'm sorry, sorry! Only kidding!
Of course, some will argue that universal loading press registration is the only way the system could work, but I say that's silly talk.
[DUCK&COVER] Kidding! I'm sorry, sorry! Only kidding!
Lost Sheep
Member
And we are seeing only those who have enough sense to join a forum and ask questions. What about those who just read the sparse sheet that comes with a-la-carte equipment purchases and proceed to self-educate from there?
Fortunately, most who start out reloading already have some experience with operating dangerous equipment (firearms) and know they are dealing with dangerous things.
Things are not as bleak as they might seem.
Lost Sheep
Fortunately, most who start out reloading already have some experience with operating dangerous equipment (firearms) and know they are dealing with dangerous things.
Things are not as bleak as they might seem.
Lost Sheep
Reloadron
Contributing Member
My thinking on this runs with that or RC and several others. While it can be said the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked some of the questions I see worry me a little.
When it comes to learning about hand loading the first response from most here is to get ABCs or reloading and a good Lyman manual. Many of the questions I see lend me to believe the people asking them have not read the book. Like jumping in the river only to later discover that still waters really do run deep.
Overall most of the questions I see are good questions but there seems to be the few who just do not want to put forth the effort to learn and get things right. Fortunately I don't see them as the majority but a few. I would prefer they are not shooting beside me on the range.
Just My Take
Ron
When it comes to learning about hand loading the first response from most here is to get ABCs or reloading and a good Lyman manual. Many of the questions I see lend me to believe the people asking them have not read the book. Like jumping in the river only to later discover that still waters really do run deep.
Overall most of the questions I see are good questions but there seems to be the few who just do not want to put forth the effort to learn and get things right. Fortunately I don't see them as the majority but a few. I would prefer they are not shooting beside me on the range.
Just My Take
Ron
FROGO207
Member
I think I speak for most of us in saying that even having reloaded for years I still learn something new all the time. Also this is the BEST all around sub forum to share this learned reloading information. There will always be a select few that feel they are too smart/good to read and follow the instructions that are included for your safety. Otherwise the manufacturers would not bother wasting resources printing them or putting them on the net.
There is an old saying when flying: There are old pilots, then there are bold pilots. BUT there are few successful old, bold pilots.
This also applies to reloading IMHO.
That said we now have a perfect storm of an ammo shortage, a batch of new reloaders, and limited or missing component selections that make lots of the printed manuals lacking in needed information. I will personally try to help whenever I can if the poster puts forth even a little bit of effort, but admit that if some took the little time needed to use the search function in this sub forum alone I feel I would be typing a LOT less. YMMV
There is an old saying when flying: There are old pilots, then there are bold pilots. BUT there are few successful old, bold pilots.
This also applies to reloading IMHO.
That said we now have a perfect storm of an ammo shortage, a batch of new reloaders, and limited or missing component selections that make lots of the printed manuals lacking in needed information. I will personally try to help whenever I can if the poster puts forth even a little bit of effort, but admit that if some took the little time needed to use the search function in this sub forum alone I feel I would be typing a LOT less. YMMV
twice barrel
Member
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2009
- Messages
- 226
I have a little different take. When I first started reloading it was for shotshells and clay targets ( I was 15 yrs old). Around 5 years later I learned to reload for a 270 that didn't shoot any factory ammo very well. Handloading saved the day. I think I purchased most of the manuals available and continued to reload metallic cartridges both as a cost saver and accuracy enhancer.
Today I own no manuals. The information online via sites like these and the powder manufacturers is more than adequate for conservative conscientious reloading. The trouble is someone wanting to use a powder they have (or can get) to reload a cartridge they have that possesses an inappropriate burning rate or they fail to obtain and follow directions for setting up dies or recognizing signs of pressure and backing off, etc. These people existed back when I started reloading before pc's or the internet. Occasionally they made the newspaper or shooting magazines as a result.
Folks like this don't seek help early enough or just don't listen. Telling them to purchase manuals and study up will not make much difference. Instead, when they do finally seek assistance give it to them. Don't chastise or belittle them. Don't tell them to do a search; instead provide them the link and tell them what/where to look for once they access the link. Do this over and over and over and over...........until you're sick and tired of it. Once it gets this way for you just button it up and stay away from those threads and posts. You'll do more harm than good.
TB
Today I own no manuals. The information online via sites like these and the powder manufacturers is more than adequate for conservative conscientious reloading. The trouble is someone wanting to use a powder they have (or can get) to reload a cartridge they have that possesses an inappropriate burning rate or they fail to obtain and follow directions for setting up dies or recognizing signs of pressure and backing off, etc. These people existed back when I started reloading before pc's or the internet. Occasionally they made the newspaper or shooting magazines as a result.
Folks like this don't seek help early enough or just don't listen. Telling them to purchase manuals and study up will not make much difference. Instead, when they do finally seek assistance give it to them. Don't chastise or belittle them. Don't tell them to do a search; instead provide them the link and tell them what/where to look for once they access the link. Do this over and over and over and over...........until you're sick and tired of it. Once it gets this way for you just button it up and stay away from those threads and posts. You'll do more harm than good.
TB
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J_McLeod
Member
I've only been reloading a few years, but I've noticed a big uptick in questions recently that no one who's read a manual should ask. It troubles me as well.
tcanthonyii
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2012
- Messages
- 249
I'm a new guy. Only been doing it for a little over 2 months. I read and read and read and watched and watched and watched videos. I received my kit as a gift. It included the Lee manual. Of everything I've read, for me personally it was the perfect ticket for learning. May not have been the best delivery for others but I got it.
I too, even being new am scared by some of the guys loading. I find great fun in loading up 5-10 of a load, then 5-10 more of another etc and working my way up. Reloading isn't exactly rocket science but it's not so easy that you can just pick a single charge and go for it. Even some of the questions they ask are so simplistic I can answer them and I have no business doing so.
So yes, its scares and concerns me too.
I too, even being new am scared by some of the guys loading. I find great fun in loading up 5-10 of a load, then 5-10 more of another etc and working my way up. Reloading isn't exactly rocket science but it's not so easy that you can just pick a single charge and go for it. Even some of the questions they ask are so simplistic I can answer them and I have no business doing so.
So yes, its scares and concerns me too.
I have several friends wanting to get into it and luckily I can teach them what I have already learned. Before they come over to learn they have to read the ABC's of reloading so that they have a working vocabulary and understand the theory of operation. Like GLOOB said, the biggest problem is complacency or indifference about safety rules. I still catch myself occasionally making a minor error. If I make a major error I will have to re-evaluate my process. The Hornady camlock bullet puller has been my companion a time or two.
30 YEARS RE LOADING my take on it is much like twice barrel and others and what is being asked by newbies the problem is some are not willing to book time, they are the new GEN that key board is there world. No foot work JUST PUNCH IT UP on the key board.! and you KNOW I'm telling the truth not all but most.
MRH
Member
I guess some people don't know what the various Stickys are for, or what kind of info they could get using the Search function.
However, I think most of us would just roll our eyes at seeing a question for the umpteenth time, and just provide the answer (again).
Better to give the answer than have someone do something dangerous on their own.
However, I think most of us would just roll our eyes at seeing a question for the umpteenth time, and just provide the answer (again).
Better to give the answer than have someone do something dangerous on their own.
Arkansas Paul
Member
Yes I am concerned as well. I'm not an old hand at it by any means, but after 4 years or so, I have picked up a thing or two. However, I learn something new just about every time I step up to the bench.
I try to steer newbies towards bulky fluffy powders that are difficult, if not impossible to double charge. Loading tiny amounts of fast burning powder is what scares me the most about new guys that don't have a good system down. A double charge could slip by easily. You take a high pressure round to begin with like the .40 and add a fast powder like Bullseye (which is a great powder for it by the way) and little mistakes can become big ones in a hurry.
I try to steer newbies towards bulky fluffy powders that are difficult, if not impossible to double charge. Loading tiny amounts of fast burning powder is what scares me the most about new guys that don't have a good system down. A double charge could slip by easily. You take a high pressure round to begin with like the .40 and add a fast powder like Bullseye (which is a great powder for it by the way) and little mistakes can become big ones in a hurry.
I concure on this one.
I've wanted to reload for quite a while and was super excited to see my press, powder, tools, and all that good stuff arrive in November. I didn't actually open the RCBS except to make sure everything was there. It stayed in the box until January when I felt comfortable with the general process down and had a few binders and manuals. I now love to do math stuff and external ballistics in my free time. Who would have guessed?
It's not like hooking up a TV without instructions. It's more like climbing behind a Mac truck without knowing how to drive it.
I've wanted to reload for quite a while and was super excited to see my press, powder, tools, and all that good stuff arrive in November. I didn't actually open the RCBS except to make sure everything was there. It stayed in the box until January when I felt comfortable with the general process down and had a few binders and manuals. I now love to do math stuff and external ballistics in my free time. Who would have guessed?
It's not like hooking up a TV without instructions. It's more like climbing behind a Mac truck without knowing how to drive it.
I reckin' we have beat up on the newbies enough. It is, however, good to see all the concern for them.
I will have to say though, that 99% of members answers to new reloaders questions have been courteous and helpful, even with the questions we see over and over. That includes safety warnings and advise to get reloading manuals.
THR members do a great job sharing and teaching. Cudos, and thanks. AC
I will have to say though, that 99% of members answers to new reloaders questions have been courteous and helpful, even with the questions we see over and over. That includes safety warnings and advise to get reloading manuals.
THR members do a great job sharing and teaching. Cudos, and thanks. AC
beatledog7
Member
The ones I worry about most (though the amount of worry I spend on this is small compared to other things on my worry list) are those who aren't bothering to ask for advice, followed by those who ask then ignore the advice they're given.
A new reloader can easily fall prey to the same disease that infects new shooters--testomachitis. No need to describe the symptoms. Ladies are almost always immune.
A new reloader can easily fall prey to the same disease that infects new shooters--testomachitis. No need to describe the symptoms. Ladies are almost always immune.
The ones that concern me are the"how many rounds can I crank out in X amount of time" group that just want to jump to the top production w/o learning what, why, and how. I started reloading in my late teens w/o much advice or supervision and didn't encounter any problems until I "thought" I knew almost everything years later. I see some serious difficulties in the future for those goal oriented over achievers.
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