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Wolf Ammo?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by peck1234, Mar 7, 2008.

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  1. peck1234

    peck1234 Member

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    (.223) I far as I can see wolf ammo is the cheapest, and that many have complaints about it....
    Im geten my AR-15, and im wondering whos had good/bad results with this ammo? Some seem to hate it and others swear by it? Soo whats your personal opinion with wolf ammo?
     
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Fired tons of it in various ARs, never any problems.

    It's a little less accurate and a lot dirtier, that's about all.

    Some people have had extraction problems but, and I'm calling down the AR fanboy thunder here, it's probably an issue with their rifles as much as the ammo itself.

    I shoot a lot of the .308 Wolf also. It's REALLY dirty, much worse than the .223 but still shoots OK in a PTR91.
     
  3. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    From what I've read about Wolf and ARs:
    -You can have problems with tight "match" chambers and normal use.
    -You can have problems with any chamber if you get the barrel very hot, chamber a round, and let it sit in the hot chamber.

    Consider a case of brass-cased ammo is $100+ more expensive than a case of Wolf, I wouldn't worry about breaking an extractor. In the unlikely event you do, the $100 savings will pay for a new extractor.

    Other Wolf issues with ARs:
    -Mediocre to terrible accuracy
    -Occasional weak batches that may not cycle the action

    I reload for my AR, so it doesn't see much Wolf. But I'd shoot it and not worry. I shoot a ton of cheap Russian ammo through my AK, but that's a different beast.

    If you are afraid to shoot Wolf, buy cheap brass-cased stuff and sell the 1x-fired brass to reloaders here on THR or on Arfcom. Natchez has been advterising inexpensive brass cased .223 lately.
     
  4. Magnuumpwr

    Magnuumpwr Member

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    Wolf ammo has always went bang when I pulled the trigger. Sure it is a little dirty, but that is why I own a cleaning kit. I bought my Bushy AR to tear things up not to drive tacks, so wolf is my AR's main fodder. Since wolf started poly coating their ammo, it poses even less of a problem in feeding and extracting as opposed to the laquer coatings of the past. You will hear people say it has poor accuracy, but like I said, if you want to drive tacks, you won't have a problem buying the ammo worthy of driving tacks. Forgot to mention, I have not noticed any problem with the ejector wearing from using the steel case ammo, no failure to load, fire, or eject. Buy plenty of mags and enjoy your AR-15.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2008
  5. J Lambs

    J Lambs Member

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    I had some issues with the steel case in my Bushmaster. When I used a buddies lacquer cased, it worked fine. I am hoping after about 200 rounds of brass, I will be able to shoot the steel.
     
  6. Lichter

    Lichter Member

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    My armalite has problems ejecting it, but I've shot alot of it through my friend's olympic with no problems
     
  7. Savage Shooter

    Savage Shooter Member

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    I shoot wolf ammo in my savage 12fv .223 it shoots dirtier than the devil but I own a cleaning kit might as well get to use it. It shoots fine for me never had any problems with it.
     
  8. eldon519

    eldon519 Member

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    I used to be a sworn advocate of Wolf. Never had any problems with it in thousands of rounds of .45 ACP. I've shot maybe 500 rounds of it in .223.

    On one particular round in my AR-15, I fired the shot and nothing really happened except a small pop. I cycled the action and tried to fire again, but nothing happened again. I ended up checking the ejected rounds. The first round had lost the primer from the pocket and low and behold, there was no flash hole in the primer pocket. I found the spent primer on the ground too; it had basically blown itself out of the pocket. The gun didn't work quite right after that, so I stripped it at the range. When I got it back together and loaded up, the first couple rounds stuck in the chamber, but came out with a second try using the charging handle. Finally one came along the stuck and ripped the rim off. I've been wary of Wolf since.

    That's my story. I don't know if it helps you make up your mind, but it was enough for me to try to avoid it, at least in rifles.
     
  9. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Wolf is weak, dirty, and inaccurate. It's also cheap. I've run thru a few thousand rounds without any problems.

    The nice thing about Wolf is that of an AR works with Wolf, it'll work with any .223 ammo. BSW
     
  10. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    I've seen people say that they have used Wolf in AR's in particular and had no trouble whatsoever. Others have had very bad stories of things like rounds sticking in the chamber, etc.

    While this does not explain some of the stories, I have a theory about some of the stories I've seen about rounds sticking in chambers.

    Bear in mind that this is a completely unverified theory based solely upon accounts that I've read.

    Here it goes...


    Many have stated that while they have no issues with Wolf in their ARs, they have had trouble with other brass cased ammunition in the aftermath of using Wolf.

    My theory is that-- according to my reading-- the steel cased ammunition does not expand upon firing enough to completely seal the chamber-- resulting in some fouling of the chamber.

    This would be no problem if a diet of steel cased ammuntion was all the rifle was fed. However... after getting a layer of fouling built up in the chamber, a more expansive brass case would find itself more tightly held in the chamber.

    Outside of other issues such as mentioned above with the non-existent flash-hole, I suspect that an AR that used exclusively steel-cased ammunition -- and never brass-cased, would experience more reliability than one that uses both.

    For this reason alone, I believe that I will not be shooting Wolf-- or any steel-cased ammunition-- in either my LR-308 or my soon-to-come-in AR-15.

    I have no proof of my hypothesis, but I'd rather not test it in either of those $1,000+ rifles.


    -- John
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2008
  11. TheGunGuru

    TheGunGuru Member

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    I shoot it almost exclusively at the range and practicing days. It never fails to fire or extract under normal conditions. I have had problems however when shooting until the gun is hot then setting it down with a round in the chamber until the barrel cooled. I think it is a problem with the laccor, like it melts or something or the steel expands under the heat more than a brass case would. Simple, and safer, solution, lock the bolt open when you stop shooting yet want to keep the mag in the gun still.
     
  12. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I shopped aound, and bought a case of PMC 223A(new production, brass case, boxer primed) for $30 more than a case of Wolf would have cost by mail- cheaper than Wolf, or Ultramax reloads even, had I went to Dicks. It's all a matter of shopping around. Gun Deals is your friend!
     
  13. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    My Saiga functions fine with it... sorry.. no AR yet.
     
  14. Robo_Railer

    Robo_Railer Member

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    The guys at The Box o' Truth did some testing of that, and it was pretty much as JWarren said. It wasn't from residual lacquer or melted poly, it was from carbon leaking around the steel cases.
    The worst problems seemed to be with using South African brass-cased .223 after the Wolf. Brass cases from other sources might not extract, but they usually didn't get chunks ripped out of their rims like the South African ammo. The theory was that the SA brass was too brittle rather than too soft.

    Reading that this afternoon made me look a little more favorably on using Wolf for a couple of courses I might take next month. Those will require 800 rounds of .223 between the two of 'em, plus 500 rounds of .40 S&W. The budget is gonna be squeakin' for awhile. :uhoh:

    EDIT: Forgot to mention I was thinking of carrying a magnet in my range box, to make it easier to "police up the brass." I know the cheap stuff isn't reloadable, but I don't go around leaving a mess on the firing line. ;)
     
  15. gunman42782

    gunman42782 Member

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    I have no problems with it. I have fired many a round of Wolf downrange through my AR.
     
  16. alaskanativeson

    alaskanativeson Member

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    You may feel free to call me a gun snob. I refuse to put any steel case ammo into any of my guns unless it's a SHTF situation and I have nothing else to use.

    When I go to a range and rent some of their guns I have no problem using it if they don't mind. There's a place in Springville, UT where I'd rent a full-auto MP5, a Glock 18, an Uzi, and an H&K UMP. I shot Wolf in them and didn't care. When it was time to pull out my own USP or Glock it was always loaded with something that had a brass case or at least Blazer stuff with the aluminum case.
     
  17. peck1234

    peck1234 Member

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    Thanks for all the help guys, really good comments!!! :) But one more question now! What brand of ammo does our military use? (USA MILITARY)
     
  18. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    I like all wolf ammo, all variants, in bolt action rifles, and I like all variants, except steel cased 223, in ar's. In my opinion, even if your ar runs with it, it is putting a lot of stress on the extractor; simple physics of a steel case tells you this.
     
  19. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    The ammo plant where most everything comes from is Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP) in Missouri but basically it's in Kansas City for all practical purposes. It's technically owned by the US Government but it's operated by Alliant Techsystems under a long term contract.
    Olin (Winchester) ran it for many many years. ATK is basically Federal once you dig through all the corporate BS.

    There is another plant in Radford, VA called RAAP but it is not producing anything.

    [​IMG]


    In WWII there were 16 plants making small arms ammo.
    By the Korean Conflict it was down to 6.
    5 were still operating during VietNam.
    Now only the Lake City plant remains.

    In fact the US has had to buy some extra ammo from Igman to meet their requirements. I understand most of the Igman ammo was issued to Iraqi troops using the M16 not our own but there isn't a lot of data on that.

    I saw an Army PowerPoint last year titled "Small Arms Production Base" that gave some statistics for "max" capacities:

    Lake City production capacity: 1.2B rounds a year (billion)
    US Made substitutes from other commercial makers: 350M a year
    NATO spec makers from the rest of the world: 500M a year


    By the way, ATK stock is down a little. Thinking of buying some but I just am not sure.
    Anyone play in the defense stocks?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2008
  20. nolyaw

    nolyaw Member

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    I fired 500 rounds of wolf .223 straight thru in my DPMS A2 Ar-15. That was 17 30 round mags, one after the other, continually. The barrel turned white. Not one malf or failure. Its very cheap, so for going nuts its great. I have about 2K rounds stocked up.
     
  21. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    This supports my theory. Fire only steel case, and you are fine. Mix and Match, and you start having trouble.


    -- John
     
  22. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Member

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    Defense Stocks are basically a loser. I don't touch 'em outside of 100 shares of Smith and Wesson I picked up when it was 3 bucks and change a share.
     
  23. Robo_Railer

    Robo_Railer Member

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    Can you elaborate on that a little? It might be the last bit of info I need in order to make the decision to pass up Wolf even though it's probably the least expensive stuff out there.
    BTW, I'd be using it in a Mini-14 rather than an AR-type, if that would make any difference.
     
  24. Magnuumpwr

    Magnuumpwr Member

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    I own a mini and refuse to use Wolf in it. If the extractor fails, it cost more to repair than to just use brass case ammo. Tearing the Mini down is not as simple as pushing a pin and remove the bolt.
     
  25. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

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    On the other hand my Dad and I fired 8 30rnd mags of Wolf 223 in my DPMS and partway into the 9th mag had one "stick" in the chamber a cleaning rod drove it out. This took place in less than 10 min. Brass case ammo has never had any issue like this. The rifle was fine we cleaned it and shoot the snot out of it - so far without any more issues.
     
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