xringer3
Member
Sorry, but I've seen too many rugers blown extractors and ARs with peeled back receivers. I've got too much money invested in my gun to shoot it in mine!
Wolf Ammo?
- Thread starter peck1234
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OK, I knew I saw it somewhere. Its DPMS that states use of steel cased ammo will void your warranty. I was sure Bushmaster had the same policy at one time.
http://www.dpmsinc.com/support/warning.aspx
Robo_Railer
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Are you referring to Wolf ammo in general, or just the steel-cased stuff?
I know this question should be a whole new thread, but where do we find bulk PMC or equivalent 55 gr. FMJ for less than 36¢ per round, plus shipping? The only stuff that I've seen lately that's still under 30¢ (.27/.28/.29 before shipping costs) is Wolf. :banghead:
xringer3
Member
Sorry Robo, I was referring to the Wolf Ammo. After seeing guns destroyed with it on my ranges, I haven't allowed any steel case ammo. It's all pretty much made the same, just put in different packages.
Robo_Railer
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Okay, thanks, XRinger. I'll probably just bite the bullet ( 
) and go with something like the Sportsman's Guide deal for 820 rounds of PMC. I can get Club Price on that, so it'd be less than the ~$350 list. Looks like almost $20 for shipping, but that'd be with 500 rounds of .40 S&W and some other stuff in the same order.
As long as UPS doesn't deliver it when Her Wifeliness is home, I won't end up stuffed into the free .50 cal. can that they pack the .223 boxes in.
) and go with something like the Sportsman's Guide deal for 820 rounds of PMC. I can get Club Price on that, so it'd be less than the ~$350 list. Looks like almost $20 for shipping, but that'd be with 500 rounds of .40 S&W and some other stuff in the same order.As long as UPS doesn't deliver it when Her Wifeliness is home, I won't end up stuffed into the free .50 cal. can that they pack the .223 boxes in.
Ignition Override
Member
Having mostly begun plinking last October (several times with .22 when young-decades ago), recently bought new M-1 Carbine and used Ruger Mini 14, and am now a real Mini fan . Have read lots and chatted with gun store staff about major complaints about Mini 30s, but like the idea of a large round in a Mini. Accuracy means little to me.
I will never be fighting a criminal at more than 25-100 feet (if only on the defensive... but just got two Mosins) even if we have an earthquake or 'uncivil' insurrection, shutting the area down for many days. Might learn to hunt feral pigs with somebody seasoned.
Have read lots on the infamous Mini 30 (terrible acc., most mags etc) and might find a used one. In order to plink often at the lowest cost, Wolf ammo looks attractive. If you clean your gun chamber with nitro solvent right when you finish shooting, would it prevent lacquer build-up, or does it sometimes happen during your first 1-2 ammo boxes such that it can still jam the chamber when really hot?
Reloading might save money: how long does it take to reload about 100 rounds if somebody helps train you?
. Have read lots and chatted with gun store staff about major complaints about Mini 30s, but like the idea of a large round in a Mini. Accuracy means little to me. I will never be fighting a criminal at more than 25-100 feet (if only on the defensive...
but just got two Mosins) even if we have an earthquake or 'uncivil' insurrection, shutting the area down for many days. Might learn to hunt feral pigs with somebody seasoned.Have read lots on the infamous Mini 30 (terrible acc., most mags etc) and might find a used one. In order to plink often at the lowest cost, Wolf ammo looks attractive. If you clean your gun chamber with nitro solvent right when you finish shooting, would it prevent lacquer build-up, or does it sometimes happen during your first 1-2 ammo boxes such that it can still jam the chamber when really hot?
Reloading might save money: how long does it take to reload about 100 rounds if somebody helps train you?
In regards to not mixing steel and brass cased ammo, is it a bad idea to ever use both in the same rifle, or is it OK as long as the rifle gets a thorough cleaning after firings?
Just wondering because I just bought 300 rounds of wolf 62grain .223 for 89.55, wondering if it was wasted money or not. and where can I find brass-cased wolf?
Just wondering because I just bought 300 rounds of wolf 62grain .223 for 89.55, wondering if it was wasted money or not. and where can I find brass-cased wolf?
Robo_Railer
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The primary problems reported seemed to be due to firing brass cased ammo after firing the steel stuff. The worst instances seemed to be one particular source of brass, possibly with brittle cases. See this experiment by the guys at The Box O' Truth.
Maybe if the carbon "tar" got completely cleaned out of the chamber, then brass could be shot after steel without a problem. The alternative might be to burn up any brass first, then the steel.
Just about any source that has Wolf steel should have Wolf brass. One hint when looking for it: I think you'll find that anything with "Berdan primed" in its description is more likely to be steel or something else not reloadable.
Maybe if the carbon "tar" got completely cleaned out of the chamber, then brass could be shot after steel without a problem. The alternative might be to burn up any brass first, then the steel.
Just about any source that has Wolf steel should have Wolf brass. One hint when looking for it: I think you'll find that anything with "Berdan primed" in its description is more likely to be steel or something else not reloadable.
Ignition Override
Member
How about Yugoslavian brass-cased ammo?
The brass might have no coating, but if it has corrosive primers, i.e. 7.62x39 in a Mini 30, do we just pour Windex down the barrel after shooting (as with the Mosin), and wipe out the receiver area, then wipe clean?
RoboRailer: outstanding graphics.
Mnd the Box 'O Truth was educational. so the carbon build-up is worse with steel before brass. But...brass then steel in my Mini 30 might work much better? It arrives in less than two weeks, I hope (have a Mini 14, so far no problem with 300+ rounds of new grey-colored Wolf ammo, my only used Mini 14 glitches: total 2 misfeeds...but could with be with Remington).
The brass might have no coating, but if it has corrosive primers, i.e. 7.62x39 in a Mini 30, do we just pour Windex down the barrel after shooting (as with the Mosin), and wipe out the receiver area, then wipe clean?
RoboRailer: outstanding graphics.
Mnd the Box 'O Truth was educational. so the carbon build-up is worse with steel before brass. But...brass then steel in my Mini 30 might work much better? It arrives in less than two weeks, I hope (have a Mini 14, so far no problem with 300+ rounds of new grey-colored Wolf ammo, my only used Mini 14 glitches: total 2 misfeeds...but could with be with Remington).
BigGunsMoreFun
Member
I never have liked Wolf
I know Wolf is by far cheaper than other ammo for most calibers. There is a reason for that. It's not very accurate. It very dirty. It does not feed well in semi-autos. The steel cased ammo is absolute garbage unless you use it in an old revolver and shoot less than 15 yards. At least that has been my experience with it.
I don't care much for the Russian Silver Bear ammo either. It's about the same as Wolf.
I have found that Prvi Partizan is decent ammo for the price. It's not as cheap as Wolf but it is much cleaner, more accurate and still a little cheaper than the run of the mill expensive american made ammo. The Prvi Partizan uses better brass and usually handles about 5 or 6 reloads before the brass becomes un-usable. By the way, I am not knocking american ammo. I always buy the good stuff when I am doing any competition or other serious shooting. I just buy the cheapest, reliable ammo I can for plinking and target practice, etc. to save a few bucks for that next gun to add to the collection.
Molon Labe,
Joe
I know Wolf is by far cheaper than other ammo for most calibers. There is a reason for that. It's not very accurate. It very dirty. It does not feed well in semi-autos. The steel cased ammo is absolute garbage unless you use it in an old revolver and shoot less than 15 yards. At least that has been my experience with it.
I don't care much for the Russian Silver Bear ammo either. It's about the same as Wolf.
I have found that Prvi Partizan is decent ammo for the price. It's not as cheap as Wolf but it is much cleaner, more accurate and still a little cheaper than the run of the mill expensive american made ammo. The Prvi Partizan uses better brass and usually handles about 5 or 6 reloads before the brass becomes un-usable. By the way, I am not knocking american ammo. I always buy the good stuff when I am doing any competition or other serious shooting. I just buy the cheapest, reliable ammo I can for plinking and target practice, etc. to save a few bucks for that next gun to add to the collection.
Molon Labe,
Joe
Ignition Override
Member
How about Yugoslavian brass-cased ammo?
The brass might have no coating, but if it has corrosive primers, i.e. 7.62x39 in a mini 30, do we just pour Windex down the barrel after shooting (as with the Mosin), and wipe out the receiver area, then wipe clean?
The brass might have no coating, but if it has corrosive primers, i.e. 7.62x39 in a mini 30, do we just pour Windex down the barrel after shooting (as with the Mosin), and wipe out the receiver area, then wipe clean?
AgentOrange
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- Aug 3, 2007
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i shot some of that wolf 223 junk in my bushmaster carbon 15 today and i have to say that it has to be the worst ive ever shot in 223. my bushy usually shoots 1/2" groups at 150-200 yards all day, but that wolf ammo shot groups about 3x the size of a pie plate.....terrible. i also bought some stuff today called "ultramax" 55gr soft point 223. i bought it for 13.00 a 50rd box on clearance, and for cheap ammo, that had to be the B-E-S-T ive ever shot ( exept for my own personal reloads). brass cases too, so reloadable.
i guess it all depends on what your gun likes i guess.
i have personally never bought any ammo n the USA that was corosive. not saying its not out there, ive just never ran across any
i guess it all depends on what your gun likes i guess.
i have personally never bought any ammo n the USA that was corosive. not saying its not out there, ive just never ran across any
Robo_Railer
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I hadn't heard of the Windex thing until now, I.O., but I did find numerous references to it on the 'Net. I knew of the hot water trick from years ago, when a buddy and I fired some surplus ammo through our .45s. It might not have been from the era when corrosive primers were the norm, but we weren't taking any chances. 
The guy at the Snowflakes In Hell Blog told about one unsatisfactory experience with hot water, and offers some ideas as to why Windex works so well. Somebody also referenced a tip from the Box O' Truth. Also mentioned is something about why the Russians use steel cases. One small error I noted is that it's lead styphnate, not "syphnate," in primers.
So I think you're right, rinse that crud outta there before leaving the range, and follow up with a good clean-and-lube when you get home.
Something else that occurred to me: If firearms lubed with Weapon Shield are reported to clean up more easily after WS has been applied in a previous cleaning, could it also help protect against salt deposits?
The guy at the Snowflakes In Hell Blog told about one unsatisfactory experience with hot water, and offers some ideas as to why Windex works so well. Somebody also referenced a tip from the Box O' Truth. Also mentioned is something about why the Russians use steel cases. One small error I noted is that it's lead styphnate, not "syphnate," in primers.
So I think you're right, rinse that crud outta there before leaving the range, and follow up with a good clean-and-lube when you get home.
Something else that occurred to me: If firearms lubed with Weapon Shield are reported to clean up more easily after WS has been applied in a previous cleaning, could it also help protect against salt deposits?
I've got about 750 rounds of that stuff. I was afraid to shoot it after some dudes AR blew up using Ultra Max last year.
Most people will tell you that Ultra Max is crap but I also had very nice groupings using that ammo. The brass they use is once-shot Lake City so
it is reloaded ammo. You should be able to get at least three more reloads out of each case if your rifle don't blow up first.
SpeedAKL
Member
I'm using a chrome-lined bore and chamber on my AR and Wolf does just fine. It's dirty and not overly accurate, but I like to clean up my AR after range runs anyway to keep it fresh, so it doesn't annoy me too much. I've run hundreds of rounds of Wolf through it and only had one jam.
Robo_Railer
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I was getting ready to say $13 a box wasn't all that great, but for a box of 50, it is. Doing the math (with a calculator, of course; I'm math-impaired), that comes out to 26¢ a round. That's about the best you can find these days, and that price is generally for Wolf steel. Getting a deal like that on 1,000 rounds of the better stuff, without shipping charges, would make me a very happy camper.
Just spotted an auction for a case of Prvi 55 gr., 32¢ a round before shipping. That's better than the 41¢ (with Club price) for PMC from Sportsman's Guide that I had been considering. Guess I'll go Googling for Prvi and Ultramax.
Re accuracy issues: Anyone tried a little heavier bullet? Even Wolf is producing some 62 gr. loads now for 5,56, and some barrels might prefer those.
Just spotted an auction for a case of Prvi 55 gr., 32¢ a round before shipping. That's better than the 41¢ (with Club price) for PMC from Sportsman's Guide that I had been considering. Guess I'll go Googling for Prvi and Ultramax.
Re accuracy issues: Anyone tried a little heavier bullet? Even Wolf is producing some 62 gr. loads now for 5,56, and some barrels might prefer those.
jpwilly
Member
YES wolf runs fine I agree it does BUT if you get a Non-Chrome lined Chamber really hot and put a Laquer coated Wolf Steel Case round in the chamber it can and will stick. It does the same thing in a Mosin Nagant etc etc. The rules don't change for AR's
The only way is to try. Barrel twist rates also come into play. Faster twist like 1 in 7 likes a heavy bullet. 1 in 9 or 1 in 10 should like 55 gr or even smaller.
If you really want to see how accurate your rifle is, do not use Wolf ammo. Get some good stuff like Black Hills.
Cesiumsponge
Member
AgentOrange
What did you do to your carbon 15 carbine to get it shooting 1/2" at 200 yards "all day"? What handloads are you running? What optics? What work?
That is 1/4MOA. Bushmaster doesn't even guarantee their match/varmint rifles to that. In fact, I can only think of one company that sells an accurized bolt-action with 1/4MOA factory guarantee. People with their $6000 AI AWs and accurized Rem 700's running perfected hand loads and $3000 optics would be overjoyed if they could consistently get 1/2" groups at 200 yards.
What did you do to your carbon 15 carbine to get it shooting 1/2" at 200 yards "all day"? What handloads are you running? What optics? What work?
That is 1/4MOA. Bushmaster doesn't even guarantee their match/varmint rifles to that. In fact, I can only think of one company that sells an accurized bolt-action with 1/4MOA factory guarantee. People with their $6000 AI AWs and accurized Rem 700's running perfected hand loads and $3000 optics would be overjoyed if they could consistently get 1/2" groups at 200 yards.
Are the Horandys TAP ammo steel cased? Scroll down then click more info on the bullet.
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_se...&category_id=f5a8f338ed2cc84911aec57bb74a84a5
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_se...&category_id=f5a8f338ed2cc84911aec57bb74a84a5
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