Wolf

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man did not wipe out mastedons.
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That's still debated.
As far as livestock losses to wolves, there's some and loss reparations can be a problem sometimes, but the Feds are getting better about it.
A few wolves out on the range do mysteriously disappear.
 
That's still debated.
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Yeah, i changed it to "sole cause", i guess after you saw it, to aovid that debate. Ultimately man was a pressure but climate change the is fairly obvious culprit.
 
BikerRN said:
I guess you haven't had to deal with lost livestock due to a reintroduced problem that was handled, correctly I might add in my opinion, years ago.

Mastredons were here on the earth years ago as well. Should we scientificly create a few in a laboratory using DNA from these creatures and reintroduce them to thier native homeland in the Hollywood hills?

Biker
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I ABSOLUTELY have dealt with the impact in four different states and am ragged ass tired of the over blown effects of wolves on livestock when the livestock them selves are artificially introduced and waaaay beyond the natural footprint of the land they occupy.

So, that said, man up on your statement regarding a open season on illegals now!

I personally am opposed to illegal immigration but shooting them would have rendered one of my Norwegian great grandfathers as a justified target.
 
BikerRN said:
I guess you haven't had to deal with lost livestock due to a reintroduced problem that was handled, correctly I might add in my opinion, years ago.

Mastredons were here on the earth years ago as well. Should we scientificly create a few in a laboratory using DNA from these creatures and reintroduce them to thier native homeland in the Hollywood hills?

Biker
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The majority of wolves in the lower 48 states were not "reintroduced". As a matter of fact, many wolf opponents argued that the Yellowstone reintroductions were unnecessary, as American wolves were never really in danger of biological extinction. That means the the majority of wolves introduced themselves from Canada or repopulated from small packs that were never really eradicated. While many whine that the Wisconsin DNR planted wolves here to rid the state of whitetail deer, the truth is our wolves either came from packs in Minnesota or the U.P. of Michigan.

Comparing the extinction of Mega Fauna( I believe they were Mastodons, not Mastredons) to the eradication of wolves is like comparing apples to wolf poop. One was eradicated because of man's fear and greed, and one went extinct because it could not adapt to a changing environment. No similarities whatsoever. At one time when man competed against the wolf for food and the loss of livestock could be a financial hardship for the owner, their elimination seemed to make sense. But, we no longer compete with the wolf for food, as there is virtually no subsistence hunting in the lower 48. We now hunt game animals primarily for sport and those game animals wolves take don't mean we go hungry, it means we won't have a set of horns to put on the wall or a picture to hang. Even then most of those that hate wolves because of their predation on game animals are just using the wolf as a scapegoat for their poor hunting skills. Basically it's a "let's kill 'em all so I get a deer every year" mindset. Since the 1990s the owners of most livestock and pets that were actually killed by wolves have been compensated appropriately. Thus in the case of livestock there is not a financial burden. As in the case of pets, it's no different than coyote predation. Folks are foolish enough to let their pets run at large within the wolves and coyote range and then cry when they get eaten. Sorry, but most of the times these incidents would not happen if the owners were responsible. Still they get compensated. While I feel that wolf numbers need to be kept within reasonable limits and that the hunting of them will keep them from loosing their fear of man, I cringe when I see public postings from hunters that advocate illegal and unethical practices. It's gives us all a bad image and certainly is not how the majority of responsible and law abiding hunters want non-hunters to perceive us.
 
Minnesota actually has the largest timber wolf population in the US, at over 3,000. The number to remove them from the endangered species list was likely surpassed 20 years ago, at around 1,500 wolves. Now they are actually considering issuing wolf hunting permits here to control the population.
 
I thought this was going to be a thread about ammo.

It's a wild dog. You don't need a .500 S&W to kill it, a 9mm is plenty!
 
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They claim it wasn't photoshoped. I have no idea, all I did was forward the post. Did you read the whold thread? Can you prove its photoshoped?
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Well, when I'm not shooting guns I shoot photographs (another expensive hobby!) and I use Photoshop and other image software all the time. Honestly, even if I didn't know anything about wolves, just looking at those photos for a few seconds the wolves are obviously "pasted" into the photos of the hunters. I actually wasn't sure if you had posted that link as a joke or not since they seemed so obviously fake. If you want some sort of hard "proof" I can't give you any, other than my educated opinion, but there is no doubt in my mind that those photos have been (not very expertly) doctored. <shrug>
 
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I also think the wolf photos are clearly photoshopped. The wolf pics were blown up and pasted on the photos of the men. Those wolves would be 300 pounds if the photos were real. In some of the photos the man's hands are larger than his head.
 
The biggest wolf I've seen was 125 lbs but even here in Minnesota they are not often seen. The only case I know of someone being attacked happened around livestock. They've been known to follow riders on horses but I never heard of an attack. They do kill livestock for sport as well as food and it is a problem in some areas. They do kill alot of deer in the Northern part of the state. A friends place West of Duluth used to have alot of deer, the wolves all but wiped them out. I don't know if they wiped out the Moose but moose have become rare in the last 20 years.
 
We don't have wolves here, at least none that can be substantiated.
We do have "coy-dogs", a hybrid of coyote and feral dogs.
These animals hang in packs as wolves do, and are much more aggresive towards humans than coyote.

I shoot them down whenever I come across them, they are a nuisance animal and the account for large kills of pheasant, quail, rabbit, chickens, piglets, calves, and anything else they can hunt down for food.
Because they roam and hunt in packs, they can take down larger animals with ease, coyote tend to be scavengers of larger animals.

If the wolves operate like the coy-dogs, they can become a threat to livestock, game animals, and even humans.
Make no illusions about these critters, they can be very, very dangerous to deal with away from a safe harbor.
 
is there actually even a documented VERIFIABLE case of a healthy wolf(not rabid or starving etc..) attacking a human unprovoked? I don't beleive it at all.
 
In the continental U.S., health issues such as respiratory problems, digestive problems, calving complications and disease were overwhelmingly the most significant causes of cattle death in 2005.

Only 0.11% of all cattle losses were due to wolf predation in 2005.

Coyotes killed more than 22 times more cattle than wolves killed that year.

Domestic dogs killed almost 5 times as many cattle, and vultures killed almost twice as many cattle as wolves did in 2005.

Theft was responsible for almost 5 times as many cattle losses as were lost by wolf predation.

Predation by coyotes was the largest cause of sheep loss in 2005, accounting for 23% of all losses, followed by health problems & weather-related issues.

In states with wolf populations, an average of less than 2.5% of sheep loss was due to predation by wolves in 2005

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As far as I know, there are no recorded incidents of wolves killing any humans in the US, ever. In packs or alone.

As for livestock, I have livestock too.

If your livestock is on your OWN PROPERTY, then you have the right to kill or otherwise dissuade predators. If it is on leased public lands, you do not. You do not have the right to kill a wild, living legacy of America that is a public resource...treasured and respected by many. They are public property, just like the public lands you are leasing. (Leasing for dirt cheap, btw).

Killing them for your convenience is disgusting and selfish. If that's the only way you can provide for your family (oh, they're killing our cattle! My kids will go hungry!) then get some big dogs, get some wilder cattle, get off our public lands and onto your own property, or get into another business.

As for hunters, you have to share the elk and deer with the other LEGAL residents of the land...too bad. Again, wolves are a wild, incredible legacy. Those of us that dont hunt and some that do STILL respect and appreciate ALL the wild things out there. They belong to all of us.

The healthy existence of prey and predators is an indicator that humans are respecting and using the land in a sustainable, healthy manner. If that doesnt sound familiar, that's because we're currently NOT doing so.

Anyone who fears wolves is ignorant IMO. I have confronted bears and cougars, alone, unarmed, and acted appropriately and been fine. I have no fear of wolves either. Because I have been properly educated about their behavior. I have a healthy fear of grizzley bears however, for factual, reasonable reasons. *I* have learned the difference.
 
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my opinion on the matter, I would just as soon see them scarce. My father and two brothers and I were hunting in the white mountains in AZ last year and found a spot with a large herd of elk, witnessed a spectacular display from less than 50 yards when two large bulls were having it out. There were no less than seven other bulls bugling in the area, it was one of my favorite days of hunting I have ever had. Shortly before shooting light was up, the wolves came. I heard the first wolf howl and the bugling instantly stopped. All the elk in the pastures we could see disappeared, and my Brother filled his tag with the last cow leaving the meadow. When we were field dressing it those wolves were close, and watching us. just inside the tree line. We caught a couple glimpses of them in the headlights. If I had been alone, I would not have felt safe. even as it was I felt uneasy. They might have been waiting for the gut pile but i doubt they would have waited so long if the trucks lights weren't on and the engine running with 4 of us out there working on that elk.
If I ever have the legal opportunity to shoot a wolf or more I sure will. There's a darn good reason our predecessors got rid of most of them. Do a little searching around if you don't believe wolves could be a danger to humans. There have been plenty of attacks and deaths, though no doubt most were before the internet. Thinking there haven't and never would be is just plain naive. Look in old journals and writings of pioneers and early settlers (especially in old Indian writings), you will find your evidence of attacks on humans there for sure. And What exactly would provoking entail? Them being hungry and you being alone? Your child slips away undetected seems like an easy meal for a single wolf let alone a pack. I recall just wandering out of camp or sneaking away on my own when I was as little as 6. If there were wolves around I would have been in serious danger. Personally I look at a pack of wolves as the most dangerous and effective large predators in the 48 states. how many mountain lions or black bears will attack a full grown healthy bull elk? It happens but rarely, and I would imagine most of the time when it does, it goes something like this;
http://www.fieldandstream.com/node/1000021419
I have seen footage of a wolf pack attacking one, more than once as a matter of fact. and successfully to boot.

The other problem I have with them is the pets and live stock issue. Sure the government compensates people for their losses but who pays the government? That's right you and me. So we paid for the pests to be put back and now are stuck with the bill for the damage they cause. It doesn't sit well with me. And then we have to try our best to scare them away without lethal force if they decide to attack our pets and live stock. At least that's what it used to be. it may be different now.

putting them back and repopulating was a mistake. and unfortunately one we will have to live with now.

9mmare said; As far as I know, there are no recorded incidents of wolves killing any humans in the US, ever. In packs or alone.
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now you know;
http://www.wolfsongnews.org/news/Alaska_current_events_1753.html
and that's just these documentations, there may be more, and definitely more undocumented. the man who was killed might have been in Saskatchewan, but that is close enough for me. should that woman not have feared the wolf that attacked her?

I Also don't like the thought of the deer herds being decimated. We don't have deer populations running rampant in AZ like they do in other states. The last thing we need is wolves. I like hunting and I DON'T want to share it with wolves. Being a human I don't have to accept it and I will piss and moan until I get my way:neener:.

But think about it this way, reintroducing natural predators and increasing their populations has become the latest popular thing. Why? The right to bear arms has become largely viewed as for sporting purposes, even though we at THR know that was a lot of nonsense and that was never the 2nd amendments intended purpose. If the "tree huggin nature nazi's" have there way, there would be no more hunting. it would all take its natural cycle and the predators would do their job. Where does that leave us? One more win for the anti's if there is no longer a need for "sporting purposes"

people need to look at the big picture and think more about true cause and effect.
 
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In the continental U.S., health issues such as respiratory problems, digestive problems, calving complications and disease were overwhelmingly the most significant causes of cattle death in 2005.

Only 0.11% of all cattle losses were due to wolf predation in 2005.

Coyotes killed more than 22 times more cattle than wolves killed that year.

Domestic dogs killed almost 5 times as many cattle, and vultures killed almost twice as many cattle as wolves did in 2005.

Theft was responsible for almost 5 times as many cattle losses as were lost by wolf predation.

Predation by coyotes was the largest cause of sheep loss in 2005, accounting for 23% of all losses, followed by health problems & weather-related issues.

In states with wolf populations, an average of less than 2.5% of sheep loss was due to predation by wolves in 2005

<deleted>
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Utmost attention needs to be paid to this post!
 
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I find the idea of people being afraid of wolves almost laughable! Here in Alaska people live around wolves without soiling themselves or keeping the children indoors.

As the seasons open up start buying wolf tags. A wolf is a fantastic game animal and the pelts are beautiful.
 
Wolf Danger

One item everyone seems to have over looked it the poster listed the wolf as limping. My experiences are with coyotes and feral dogs, but that experience has been that an injured or aged predator is far more dangerous and far more likely to attack around a home/farmstead than a healthy predator. The healthy predator will tend to prey on it's natural food supply. My suspicion is your primary danger is an attack on your dog or other livestock that might spill over to you when you or a family member go to the aid of your pet.

I would be very cautious around a limping wolf and I would carry a heavy caliber handgun. My perferance is for the .44 Magnum, but anything that pushes 175 grains or more at roughly 900-1000 fps should do the job. As with the two legged predators, keep shooting until the threat neutralized.
 
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