Woman shoots through wall and kills ‘peeping Tom’ outside her Texas home, cops say

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Aim1, Sep 12, 2021.

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  1. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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  2. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    If the man didn't attempt to break into her "castle", she might be in some trouble.

    Probably best to try and take a cell phone photo of the man while on the phone with 911. With the rifle at the ready, of course.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  3. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Most states have castle doctrine laws.

    Based on the news report, I would be extremely surprised if she is "ok".
     
  4. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    She may, or may not be charged criminally, but I see a civil suit that may haunt her for years.
     
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  5. burrhead

    burrhead Member

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    Maybe, maybe not. If the DA doesn't bring charges, or she is no-billed by the grand jury, there is no bases for a civil suit in Texas. A suit could be filed but would likely be dismissed by a summary judgment.
     
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  6. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    it was Yahoo.... so maybe the "wall" was an interior door and he was breaking it down with an axe at the time.
     
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  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    There is a distinct difference between criminal and tort law.
     
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  8. burrhead

    burrhead Member

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    Yes, I know. Texas has a law that prevents civil action for a "good" shoot.
     
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  9. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    It DOES NOT, I REPEAT, DOES NOT PREVENT CIVIL ACTION FOR A “GOOD SHOOT”.

    What all of these laws do is give the person who is being sued a statute to cite in a motion to dismiss the civil suit. The court may let the suit proceed if the judge feels that the plaintiff has a case. Shooting through a wall might be ruled reckless enough to make the judge rule that the suit can proceed.

    I don’t know why everyone thinks those statues are absolute immunity. They aren’t. Suits can still be filed, you still have to hire an attorney to answer the suit and make a motion to dismiss under the statute. Regardless, you’re out a few thousand dollars if the judge dismisses the suit. And if the judge lets the suit go forward on the grounds that shooting through a wall, while legal under castle doctrine, wasn’t a reasonable action to take, the legal bills could be staggering even if you win.
     
  10. burrhead

    burrhead Member

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    Yep, that's why I said in my second post that a suit could be filed. That will cost the shooter some money. A little or the value of a house. The truth is none of us know the facts of what happened. My point is that a civil suit is far from a given. An attorney told me once that a fired bullet has a big monetary check attached to it.
     
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  11. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    Castle Doctrine or not, Texas doesn't allow criminal negligence or reckless endangerment.

    Nor does it have the death penalty for peeping Toms.
     
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  12. Ranger99

    Ranger99 Member

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    It's a shame that common sense doesn't
    figure into the mix at all
    After a cursory investigation, the matter
    would be dropped completely and not
    brought up again, and no civil suits would
    be allowed
     
  13. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    By what standard is shooting through a wall at an unidentified person who was looking through the window “common sense”?

    What’s a cursory investigation? Something you saw in a B Western: “I saw it all sheriff, the stranger drew first it was self defense.” “If you say you saw it Clem, that’s good enough for me, boys get this body over to the undertakers, bartender the next round is on me, set em up!”

    Everytime I read a story like this I think of Paul S who lived in the town where I worked as a police officer. Paul was an engineer. Then he had a traumatic brain injury in an automobile accident. He was barely able to care for himself after the accident. Sometimes he slipped away from his caregiver and wandered around town. Fortunately everyone in town knew him and if they found him in the yard they’d call his caregiver, call us or help him get home himself.

    We know nothing about the man she shot through her wall. For all we know he was a harmless person with a traumatic brain injury who didn’t know what he was doing and meant no one any harm.

    Yes there are evil people in the world, I’ve met some up close and personal. But there are also drunks who are trying to get into what they think is their home, I’ve met some of them too. And there are a lot of people who aren’t in possession of their faculties who wander the streets because back in the early 1980s our society decided it was more humane to let them wander the streets then to institutionalize them. Yes many of them are dangerous, but the majority are harmless. I’ve dealt with both types.

    Everytime we discuss one of these situations here we can count on a percentage of the membership to celebrate a killing before they know the details.
     
  14. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    bdickens writes:

    Texas also does not have the death penalty for rape, robbery, or burglary.

    While "loitering and prowling" (the usual actual term for "peeping tom") is not typically a crime for which deadly force is warranted, there are many others that can indeed warrant it, but that also do not qualify for the death penalty. A crime need not be a potential death-penalty offense to justify a deadly-force defense.
     
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  15. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    TX + female victim + nighttime = she walks
    (My prediction)
     
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  16. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Looking at what little info is given... I'll revert to how I'd look into that incident if I were part of the investigating team (and whatever else occurs you can be certain that an in-depth investigation will occur...). The first thing I'd want to find out (after both parties have a very thorough records check - both criminal and civil...) is whether they knew each other or had any contact before the incident...

    I haven't the slightest idea how this will play out - or whether there's critical info that wasn't in the news about the incident... My main purpose was to show just what any armed citizen will be facing - if they're ever involved in an armed incident where someone fires shot(s) and there's an injured "victim" as a result... Food for thought.
     
  17. Ranger99

    Ranger99 Member

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    IMO- your home and your place of worship
    are supposed to be your places of refuge
    and safely. The woman didn't know but
    what she was about to be a rape or murder
    victim. People know that there are places
    they're not supposed to be, and they know
    when something doesn't belong to them.

    I have no sympathy for people that break
    the law, especially if they're impaired by
    the intake of intoxicants. Everybody knows
    better, so I don't listen when misplaced
    sympathy and excuses are made for them
     
  18. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Maybe he was the Newspaper delivery guy?
    Sounds hokey:uhoh:
     
  19. Dale Alan

    Dale Alan member

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    How many people have you killed because they broke the law ?
     
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  20. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That doesn't begin to cut it. The threshold for justification is an objective basis for a reasonable belief that deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent death or serious bodily harm.

    What does that have to do with it?

    Alrighty then.
     
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  21. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

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    The bare-bones report doesn't give us enough facts to make a judgement.

    On the surface, it appears that she overreacted, especially because of firing blindly through a wall. No telling what innocent bystanders she could have hit.

    It seems that the best defense against "peeping Toms" is simply drawing the curtains.

    If they attempt to break in, then you have a valid excuse to open fire.
     
  22. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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  23. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    It is not their decision to make.
     
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  24. TarDevil

    TarDevil Member

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    My step daughter and her boyfriend got into an argument walking home from a bar and they parted mid way. She had very little to drink, but that's the last thing she remembers.
    She woke up the next morning in an unfamiliar living room surrounded by unfamiliar faces. Thankfully, the faces belonged to compassionate people.
    She suspected someone put something in her drink. A toxicology test was done; she didn't divulge the results and we didn't pry. But as Jeff said, you never know why people may be on your property and they usually don't deserve to die.

    I've chased peeping toms off my property. They are cowardly jerks who pee their pants at a threat.
     
  25. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    They were not reported to say they hadn’t made a decision, just that one had not been made.

    If a decision is made to file charges against the woman, I’m sure they will get a call to go get her.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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