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Woods/city carry for Alaska worker

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by UAV Dan, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. Random 8

    Random 8 Member

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    https://www.tombstonetactical.com/c...olver-44mag-44sp-4.625in-6rd-satin-stainless/ This, your local dealer will have to have it shipped there and do the transfer as his inventory sucks. Following is my rationale.

    Please do not take offense, this is not my intent, but you seem to be less gun-savvy than most of the folks here so I'm keeping it simple. .44 is easy to find appropriate ammunition for, no boutique ammunition needed as with .45LC, .454 or any of the wildcats mentioned above. IMHO, 10mm is a bit light for brown bear. Somebody more familiar with brown bears can chime in on that aspect, but I think a common 240gr soft point load would be fine. This is a proven, reliable platform that will work in any conditions. It is relatively light and compact for it's capabilities. Any talk of Rugers being corrosion prone is bunk. Any handgun of any finish will rust when subjected to extreme conditions. Clean properly after exposure to moisture, especially salt spray and you won't have issues.

    I carry a Taurus .357 of similar size in "under the coat" carry regularly at work and play, and it fills the role nicely (I don't have brown bears, so .357 is enough gun for me).
     
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  2. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    In the winter I sometimes carry a 6" or 8 3/8" barrel 44mags in shoulder holsters, anything more than a windbreaker will cover them. My everyday carry is a Shield 45 and it covers easily and is loaded with 45 +p hollow points. I think having a backup shotgun with a few different loads would be a good idea, maybe a pump that breaks down easily and a backpack.
     
  3. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Yeah, my father in law thought the same thing and bought one when he first came to Alaska back in he mid 70s. He sold that pretty quick and went to carrying a rifle.
     
  4. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Ironically, those guns aren't too popular up here, especially in 454. It's just too much power in too small of a package. The trade off for that is the S&W 329PD, but even those are too light to do much training with before you start to have pain in your hands and elbows. Too bad, I would LOVE to carry a 329PD instead of my Redhwak (28 oz vs 43 oz). I've also heard some horror stories, third hand of course, about the Hillary locks disabling the gun with heavy handloaded ammo. (I've never personally seen it happen, and I've never heard it from someone who actually owns a 329PD, so take that with a grain of salt.)
     
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  5. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    So another thing to think about here, and I'm not trying to bash on Glock (at least in this post), but it's my understanding that, for some reason, Glocks don't do well with hard cast projectiles. I don't know all of the science behind it, but I hear it relentlessly from the guys I compete against who shoot Glocks.

    I mention this because projectile choice in a bear gun is as important as caliber choice. The accepted standard up here, for bears anyway, at least in revolvers and rifles, are hard cast lead WFN (wide flat nose) projectiles. The reason being is the need to penetrate hide and bone deep enough to reach vitals. JH type bullets just don't penetrate enough.

    Here is a link to a FB post from a guy who helped out two hunters this past season, one of which was mauled by a brown bear. The victim's partner put a 30-06 round into the bears skull. The bear kept on mauling. It was the two shots to the rib cage that put her down. The 4th or 5th photo in shows where the fur on the head was torn off by the bullet but didn't go through. Shot placement. Bullet design. All of this stuff matters.

    https://www.facebook.com/glenn.marlin/posts/10212029416290100
     
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  6. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

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    Glock 20 SF

    4 legs: http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_301&product_id=105

    Two legs: pick what ever your favorite SD ammo may be. No need for full power 10mm IMHO, many of the 10mm loads are really in the 40 S&W class.

    When I have gone to Alaska I carry two mags with Federal HST 200gr for "in town" and when "outside of town" I pop in a mag of the Double Tap 200gr gas check. Although depending on what town your in large beasties may roam the street!
     
  7. DairyVet

    DairyVet Member

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    Not doubting your in-law’s dislike of a short barrel, large-bore revolver, but the Ruger .41 backpacker came out in 2016 and the Charter in 2018. Were similar models offered back then and discontinued? Or was it a .44 he purchased back in the 70s?

    I can’t imagine either are terribly pleasant in .41, and likely much worse in .44.
     
  8. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    And with that pain comes cumulative, permanent joint and nerve damage, and tendon damage.
     
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  9. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    I think what a lot posters are missing is the need to be able to effectively handle the recoil of the chosen weapon.

    The pistol in my avatar was purchased when I moved to Idaho for backcountry carry. It's a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley in .45 Colt with a 5.5" barrel.

    I then went about developing "bear" loads for it using my own hand cast 300 grain boolits. The end result was a heavy, bulky pistol that held six rounds and takes a ton of practice to shoot fast and effectively.

    Not to mention the recoil. First pistol I've owned that I actually use a glove to bench shoot due to the painful recoil.

    The OP needs something that he will actually want to shoot quite a bit to become proficient with. That makes anything in a short barreled revolver in .454 Casull, .460 S&W, and even .44 Magnum a no-go.

    I bought the Glock 29, which is the compact version of the Glock 20 in 10mm. I then installed a KKM 4.5" barrel and developed "bear" loads for it using my own hard cast 200 grain boolits. There are multiple vendors which sell over the counter 200+ grain hard cast loads which have all performed well in my pistol with the stock and KKM barrels.

    The recoil of all loads is easily controllable and the gun has never failed to feed, fire, or eject any of the thousands of rounds I've put through it.

    Is it as powerful as a .44 Magnum? Not even close. Nor is the recoil.

    If the OP buys one of the short barreled revolvers in a magnum cartridge, he will go to the range shoot a cylinder full, be completely overwhelmed by the recoil and pain, and never want to shoot it again, much less become proficient with a tool he may need to defend his life with.

    I vote Glock 20 and many, many boxes of HSM or Buffalo Bore "bear" loads to become proficient with.

    BTW, this is my current woods carry gun; Glock 29 in 10mm with KKM 4.5" barrel, X-Grip adapter so I can use a 15-round Glock 20 magazine, and Dawson fiber optic sights.
    IMG_20190713_143000800_HDR.jpg

    Without the grip adapter, it's about the same overall size as my Glock 19 9mm...

    IMG_20190710_214109679.jpg
     
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  10. WrongHanded
    • Contributing Member

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    Lots of answers for you here.

    I've got a few questions instead:

    How much experience have you got shooting big bore revolvers?

    How much time are you likely to be on the ground in bear country?

    How much time are you willing to put in to learning to shoot the gun you choose?

    Are you willing to buy something online, or order something that is not available locally?

    What is your budget for the gun, for the holster, for practice ammo?
     
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  11. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I really can't argue with this

    Everything is a trade-off. You can't go up against a bear with a 22LR (I'm getting a tad hyperbolic here.) just because it has low recoil. Unfortunately, the plastic fantastic is not the answer to all of the world's problems.


    Again, trade-offs. Do some math and figure out how much transferable energy you lost when you went down to a 200 grn 10mm. I feel like the 44 magnum is actually the better trade-off. When you consider that any handgun will be sub par compared to a rifle, and then you look at the biggest handgun options (454 and 500S&W), and then you look at the smaller handgun options (9 and 10mm, 45ACP), and you look at energy vs recoil...44 magnum is actually a good place to be. Manageable recoil (especially in a heavy gun) with enough power. (How much is "enough"? You be the judge.)

    I totally agree! I see this all the time up here. Lots of those guns for sale used.

    Both are good options. HSM was my go to when I wasn't handloading (or don't have time to)
     
  12. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Absolutely. That's why I gave up on the idea. I would still love to carry a sub 2 lb revolver, but I know it's never going to happen.
     
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  13. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    It was some version of a Blackawk with a 6" barrel. He now has essentially the same gun with a 4.5" barrel in 44 magnum.
     
  14. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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    Personally I am of the opinion that the 10mm is a solution in search of a problem. I have limited experience with the 10mm, and have been unimpressed. That said, I have one buddy who has a G20, and he reports that, with extensive shooting, he has found that it does not handle heavy weight projectiles well. He sticks to 180gr and less for his shooting.
     
  15. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    IMO you are better off sticking with what you prefer rather than switching to double action revolver or semi-automatic pistol that you do not have a lot of training or experience with.

    Since you prefer the single-action Blackhawk you should not have much difficulty getting one with 4 3/4” barrel in either 44 Magnum or 45 Colt. I suggest you consider the Original Vaquero as it checks all of the boxes for rough service.

    The Vaquero has fixed sights which are not only sufficient for minute of bear but is easier on your coat when carrying concealed. The adjustable rear sight blade can be rough on the lining on the inside of your coat.

    The standard hammer can be easily replaced with a Ruger Bisley hammer. The Bisley hammer spur is lower making it easier to cock.

    The Vaquero is typical Ruger overbuilt. It will safely handle 44 Magnum and hot 45 Colt loads. As I own Vaqueros in 45 Colt I would carry one loaded with either Buffalo Bore ammunition or my handloads using a heavyweight hard cast bullet.

    As for rust where are you going to be working? I smear the inside of the grip frame that is covered by the grips with RIG Grease. I would give the inside of the action, barrel and chambers a shot of Breakfree CLP occasionally and wipe the exterior of the gun with a silicone cloth or a rag sprayed with CLP. It would not be difficult to carry a cloth inside a zip-lock sandwich baggie this making a daily wipe down convenient.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  16. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    I recall the bear incident just this year wherein a Glock 10 was to be counted on and while it wasn't the primary shooter's fault (other than NOT having it on him at the time) the mag was inadvertently dropped from the pistol rendering it useless and likely leading to the fatality.

    DA is NOT to discounted as most can be fired SA if desired but you can still pump out 6 rounds on your back in rapid fashion.

    I like the S&W of your choices but would prefer a 4 inch for the carry you generalize.


    Todd.
     
  17. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    A few others have hinted at this as well, but the gun itself - and the human factors of its competent operation - is a pretty significant variable in this equation.

    Learning to run a DA revolver competently enough to use it for self-defense against an animal or people is not as easy as many assume, and doubly so when talking about truly stout recoil-generating rounds like full-power .44 magnum. Learning to run a semi-auto pistol is a bit easier simply because the trigger is so much easier to manage; the reloads are vastly easier, too, but reasonable people can disagree about the actual significance of that for personal defense.

    Of course, I'm also of the view that buying and hauling around any handgun doesn't make one a competent gunfighter any more than buying and hauling around a sword makes one a samurai.
     
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  18. sgt127

    sgt127 Member

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    I have a 629 a dear friend gave me years ago. Loaded with hard cast .44 mag, I suppose it’s my best choice. In the city? Good .44 Specials.

    38DC0296-B85E-4826-87A9-4DF9C04CF9A4.jpeg Not in a position to be attacked by a bear. Never have been.

    But, I can’t imagine using a single action revolver as a bear is charging me. I might get one or two rounds off. Gloves. Cold frozen hands. Just seems a nightmare to cycle a SA under that stress.

    I think my chances of getting more rounds on target are infinitely greater with a good DA revolver.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  19. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    There are people who could do it - they are people who have invested thousands of hours running SA guns hard. I'm certainly not among those people.
     
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  20. Lucky Derby

    Lucky Derby Member

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    The last time I was in Alaska, I was still in my mother's womb, so I really don't know what is needed up there, but I did want to address a couple of things
    1. A stainless Ruger Revolver is about as rust resistant as a metal object can be.
    2. 10mm is more equivalent to the .357 Magnum, and, with the right ammo, touching on entry level .41 Magnum. .44 Magnum is just more. Much more, even without careful ammo selection.
    3. You can get a .44 or .45 Stainless Blackhawk with a 3.75" barrel.
    Personally, I would go with a S&W 629 with either a 4" or 5" barrel.
     
  21. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    My choice, might not necessarily work for you or anyone else, if I was in your situation, would be a Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt/.45 ACP. ACP for defense against 2 legged creatures while in town, and "Ruger only" .45 Colt hardcast for bruins in the wild.
     
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  22. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    That’d do.
     
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  23. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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    I may be mistaken, but I think when I was researching a handgun for woods carry, the convertible Redhawk n .45 Colt/.45 ACP was at the top of my list until some Ruger experts advised that the convertible versions weren't as stout as the regular versions, so running heavy "Ruger only" loads was not advised.
     
  24. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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  25. Trey Veston

    Trey Veston Member

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