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Wordy and confusing?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Oleg Volk, Sep 18, 2004.

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  1. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    [​IMG]
    I don't have access to hi-res news images. The pictures I did have for this poster don't seem like a very close fit. Thoughts or suggestions?

    (Maybe I need a comma before "watch". Maybe I need to ditch this mess and start over.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2004
  2. VaughnT

    VaughnT Member

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    Maybe say "russia" instead of Osetia. I didn't quite catch on, at first.

    Too wordy? I don't think so. Though, you might get a better reaction if you just said something to the effect that "Terrorists know our kids go to school in 'gun=free zones'!"

    "How fast can the police get there?"
     
  3. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Effective

    Not at all, Oleg. Seems to get the point across clearly.

    The part of the caption: "How fast can the police get there"
    isn't even pertinent. In situations like the incident in Russia, by the time the police arrive, the invaders own the arena, and the police often can't even approach the area without provoking a killing. Armed and trained
    staff within the school makes much better sense, since a strong resolve
    and the equipment to mount an immediate and effective response stands
    a much better chance of containing the bad guys than waiting for the cavalry to come and save the day. How much differently the tragedy at Columbine would have turned out had the teachers all been armed.
    Casualties? No doubt. The attack came without warning. I'd be willing to
    bet that there would have been far fewer casualties though. The same goes for the incident at Luby's cafeteria in Waco.

    The cry: "Call the police! They'll protect us" is a sheep mentality that has to go. It's more critical now than ever before. It's not a matter of "IF"
    this happens in America...It's a matter of time.

    Good poster.

    Tuner
     
  4. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Hmmm....{grabs editting pencil}


    Terrorists seek soft targets. Armed teachers make a difference.

    Terrorists seek soft targets. Armed teachers foil them.

    Arming the teachers works (In Israel, x,y,z,etc}

    Watch helplessly or fight back? Arm the teachers!

    Armed teachers: for when you absolutely, postively must fight back right NOW. Not in 10 minutes, not in 5, NOW.


    Armed teachers: Nothing is nobler than to teach and defend.


    At school, who's got your kid's six?

    Your school's current anti terror plan is a locked door. {Image of school door with big window}
    Yeah, that'll work. {Image of Russian school carnage.}
    Armed teachers!
     
  5. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the idea that terrorists first pick soft targets with minimum risk is the best way to go, but be careful to avoid the association trying to be made by the antis the terrorists will have access to assault rifles now that AWB has sunsetted. Also, I think most parents' reactions will be to want armed trained security personnel trained to respond instead of untrained teachers. This one may not be effective any way we apprach it.
     
  6. Chipperman

    Chipperman Member

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    Must be a rough school.
    Not only is the teacher armed, but she's wearing body armor. :p
     
  7. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    In fact Oleg .. in this case, no - not too wordy I think because the message is necessary, good and comes across. I agree tho - insert ''Russia'' instead of ''Osetia'' .. this is fresh in people's minds and they will know exactly to what it refers ... in fact even long after, it will be remembered too.

    Minor point ... but the landscape layout - tho ideal - seems a bit lacking in height .... in as much as the red background bottom right with the terrorist message, appears as tho it couldn't quite fit in! Probably because the text is sitting on outer edge of pic. Maybe of course that was only way to make it fit anyways! Oh and .. the gray ''bar'' on right - not sure that's useful.

    Let me illustrate what I mean ... re that text ...... lifting it off bottom a bit . Pedantic? Probably! :p


    [​IMG]

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Meant to add ... I don't think using news pics is that important .... tho later perhaps try it again with anything you can grab. As it is - stands up just fine .... works for me.:)
     
  8. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    No. Trust me, please: a comma there would be totally out of place. Adverbs don't need to be set off with commas.

    There's nothing wrong with the statement on the left, although I'd use "Russia" instead of the name of the town.

    The statement on the right needs to be much shorter: something along the lines of "The U.S. government won't let American teachers protect your kids."

    Actually, that's not quite 100% true, since teachers in Utah can carry concealed firearms. You could, in fact, make that the whole point of the poster: in the U.S., only Utah teachers can legally protect your kids.
     
  9. Mad Man

    Mad Man Member

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    In America, it doesn't have to be this way.

    (optional addition): Let our teachers protect our children.
     
  10. garrettwc

    garrettwc Member

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    How about "helplessly" instead of impotently?

    A more anguished look on the head shot? Lose the body armor on the other one.

    Other than that another great one.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    In any case I wouldn't dump it. The message is current ... and important. Such an outrage could happen here, and in most cases security consists of a sign outside the front of the school that reads, "No Guns Allowed." In either Russia or the United States any terrorist or criminal would ignore such signs. Perhaps this will provide you with an additional insight.

    Keep up the good work. :D
     
  12. Mad Man

    Mad Man Member

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    Hmmm. How about a picture of the siege with a caption like "Gun Free Safe School Zone".
     
  13. Mal H

    Mal H Administrator

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    My editing would echo what several have already said:

    'Russia' for 'Osetia'
    'helplessly' for 'impotently' (comma not necessary after either word)
    hyphen not required with "school children"
    Should have a period at end of "In America" sentence


    Nonetheless, the message is clear and good.
     
  14. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Please keep suggestions coming. I will re-edit on Sunday.
     
  15. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    Oleg ... just thinking of contracting the text on right a shade .... maybe ....

    ''In America -
    If Federal Law did not forbid armed teachers, your children could be safer too.''

    That is as short as it goes but also perhaps ......

    ''In America -
    Federal law forbids the armed teacher - and so your children are at risk. Terrorists however follow no laws.''

    There are various constructions that can all work.
     
  16. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Unless I'm mistaken, the federal law in question is the Gun Free Schools Act of 1994. It requires that schools expel kids who bring guns to school, and creates a 1000-foot radius around schools, within which it is a felony to have a gun unless you have a carry permit that included a background check, or it's unloaded and in a locked container.

    So a teacher with a permit isn't prohibited from carrying by any federal law I'm aware of. Of course, there may be state laws or district rules, but that's something else.

    Or is there another federal law I'm not familiar with?
     
  17. El Cid

    El Cid Member

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    The problem I have with armed teachers is some students think it is their mission in life to try to push the teachers over the edge. One teacher in High School years ago did crack. I'm just glad he didn't have a weapon and merely punch the student out. The techer was given the choice of resigning or getting fired. He was "strange".
     
  18. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Maybe the students would realize that their teachers can take on terrorists and that students are small fry by comparison ;-)
     
  19. entropy

    entropy Member

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    My .02:
    Change Osetia to Russia (or Chechnya)
    Change ' had to' to 'could only'
    Change impotently to horrified, and re-shoot pic to reflect that.
    Add 'innocent' in front of school children, and eliminate the hyphen.
    Reshoot pic without vest, or better yet, under the shirt.
    As has been pointed out, there is probably no Federal Law that would prohibit legal CCW by permit holders, but many states do have them. Reword to state this.
    Change 'your kids' to 'our kids'. Inclusive instead of divisive.
    Period at the end of sentence. "....at stake."
    Terrorists know this . Makes it more immediate.

    Test run:
    In Russia, horrified adults could only helplessly look on as terrorists slaughtered innocent school children.

    Here in America,
    teachers could be able to protect
    our children from terrorists.
    Unfortunately, most are
    forbidden by law to be armed
    to do so, while the lives of
    our children are at stake.


    TERRORISTS KNOW THIS

    Great idea, Oleg! I can't wait for the redo!:)
     
  20. joab

    joab Member

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    I think the naming the town makes it more personal I would leave that, most people think on a local level more than on a national level. You could not even give a location and everybody that the message coulkd possibly effect knows where you are talking about.
    Russia to many of us in my age bracket, who were taught to hide under desks when the nukes came, is still the USSR. Naming the town localizes the situation and gives a more personal face to the tragedy.

    Helpless is too generic a word impotent goes way beyond and will strike it's own special chord for men. No joke intended.
    Horrified is a corny word in my opinion

    Don't change the text it implies that we have the means to protect but the goverment won't allow it.
    The phrase "Federal law forbids" at the beginning of a sentance would automatically be equated in some minds that therefore we don't have the means.

    I know this is not coming out right. But the theory that "we can but they won't let us" ,to me, is more powerful than " they won't let us so we can't"

    I would get her out of the body armor though she looks more like an undercover cop and that sends an inappropriate message here.
     
  21. Matt G

    Matt G Moderator Emeritus

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    Agree with entropy: should end "Terrorists Know This."


    I also agree with Mal. Say "Russia," rather than "Osetia." I realize that Russia as a large, multifarous country is very real to you, Oleg, but most Americans still see it as the enigmatic, mostly centralized place that they thought of back in USSR days.

    Where's her holster?
     
  22. dustind

    dustind Member

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    I think NH has armed teachers, I am not possitive though.
     
  23. coylh

    coylh Member

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    Hi Oleg. I like the idea, but I vote for simpler.

    "Terrorists know teachers are unarmed."

    I would also suggest, though this might be stretching into another picture, that the background image should be something that communicates "Terrorists killed schoolchildren." We then hope that the message received is "Armed teachers can prevent terrorists killing students."
     
  24. Kamicosmos

    Kamicosmos Member

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    I would have the teacher defending a child-student. Make her look more like a teacher too...put her in a black dress or something. Right now, especially with the body armor, she looks more like a cop....or possibly a terrorist even...

    Also, I thought the school was in Beslan? What's Osetia (region, area, suburb?) I agree that Russia or Checknya would be a bit better for recognition in the long term.

    I think the rest of it works very well.
     
  25. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Beslan is the town we know about.

    Russia

    Parents, not adults

    Delete impotently

    Remove school and insert their

    "In Russia parents had to watch as terrorists slaughtered their children."

    "In America federal and state law prohibit teachers from arming themselves even if it is to protect your children."

    "An assault on American schools will be easier than it was in Russia."
     
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