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Worried about CWD.

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Captcurt, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    Here in northern Arkansas we have had several cases of CWD for the last few years, but the closest case to my area is probably 50 miles away. This morning I pulled SD cards on 2 of my cameras and there is a emaciated doe on both cameras. This old gal looks rough. I am going to try to take her out and have her tested. Our private land doe season opens Saturday. What do you think about her? IMG_0132 (800x445).jpg IMG_0133 (800x493).jpg IMG_0129 (800x551).jpg
     
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  2. Bull Nutria

    Bull Nutria Member

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    definitely on the poor side. I don't know the outward symptoms of CWD. perhaps you could email those photos to the Ark Game and Fish Deer biologist. Could be just an old deer with parasites and/or bad teeth???
    nice photos from your cameras!!

    Bull
     
  3. SoonerMedic

    SoonerMedic Member

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    She doesn't look infested with ticks for sure....she very well could have an impacted or broken tooth, but that typically results in swelling (in people anyway) from an infection. She certainly needs to be euthanized and if at all possible shoot her away from any food sources. I would go for a headshot if you can and burry/burn her right where she lies and then cover with plenty of dirt.
    IIRC CWD and other diseases are spread through nose to nose contact most often and can be spread from saliva being left on corn and another deer eating said corn. I guess this is why spreaders are most commonly recommended.
     
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  4. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    She looks alert but emaciated. Perhaps she is very old and had twins or triplets dragging her down.

    We don't have CWD here ... yet ... so I don't know if they get lethargic and mopey. Avoid any connection with the CNS (central nervous system). I would lung/heart shoot her to avoid putting CWD prions in the environment. Bring her to a biologist or, better yet, have one come pick her up.
     
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  5. Panfisher

    Panfisher Member

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    I have confirmed CWD withing 5 miles of my house. Most definitely I would contct AGFC and show them the photos, they may well want to kill it before the season and test it. If it came out in front of me during season I would definitely put a bullet through lungs, avoid the brain and spine if at all possible. Put it on a plastic sheet and call the game warden. Most likely they will take it and not count it against your tags. In MO that is what would happen anyway. I will agree that she appears alert if unhealthy.
     
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  6. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    The problem with CWD is that the weight loss, primary symptom, is also present in the same manner for other maladies. She appears alert, her head is up, ears are perked, and she doesn't seem to have an awkward stance, so I'd venture that she's not CWD. Soonermedic may have hit upon the cause, the swollen jaw.

    Did you folks notice that her left ear is damaged? I'm going to say she's been injured, maybe by a minor vehicle impact, damaging the ear, and perhaps breaking teeth or even a partial breaking of her jaw. She may have a disease now, as emaciation will lower her resistance to pathogens, which would accelerate her decline.

    LD
     
  7. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I'd send that photo to the authorities and see what they say. Whatever it is, she won't last through the winter.
     
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  8. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    I'd be concerned about CWD also. Only way to know is to have her tested. State of Wisconsin believes the number one culprit for the spread of the disease in wild deer, is feeders and bait piles.
     
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  9. Jeb Stuart

    Jeb Stuart Member

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    Also in Virginia they will not allow natural urine. Must use synthetic. Big controversy in the Fact that many stores will sell it, knowing that Hunters will disregard the law, which they do. It is a horrible disease. I find it amazing how so called sportsmen will not obey the law and take such a risk that could wipe out a whole herd. To the OP, thanks for posting. Awareness is every thing. Have you spotted any others showing the same design. By the way, what is the Law with feeders in your area?
     
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  10. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    If there has been CWD within 50 miles of you, it's only a matter of time until it will be in your area. In fact I think photos you posted show that the time has come.

    There are several prions that cause a spongioform encephalopathy in mammals. They would be chronic wasteing disease (CWD) in deer, elk, etc., scrapie in sheep and bovine spongioform encephalopathy in cows. It was found that the prion from cows was transmissible to humans and was called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. The incubation period for transmission from cows to humans can take many years. It has not yet been established whether or not CWD is transmissible to humans so take your chances.

    Prions are very resistant to even heat so I would not want a CWD infected deer buried or otherwise disposed of anywhere on my property.
     
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  11. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    AGFC changed baiting and use of bio-fluids and urine in 2017. No natural urines or bio-fluids allowed statewide. (There goes my 200 proof). Baiting in the CWD areas is from 9/1-12/31. Private land outside the CWD zones is open to feeding all year.

    Most of the deer have been turning to acorns lately and few are showing up at the feeders. I am hoping that I see this doe this weekend and can take her in for testing.
     
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  12. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Actually, I think that hunters probably don't know the law. I'm only a few miles from Virginia, and had no idea that the stuff wasn't legal. I don't use it, so probably wouldn't read anything on its use, but what about the guy who bought more than one container of the stuff a couple of years ago, found the unopened bottle, and simply uses it? Why would he check? A lot of folks buy stuff for sale, simply because it's offered, thinking if it's ok to buy (online too) then it must be OK to use? True, a hunter should stay informed, but many don't. They sell .410 slugs, but those aren't legal for deer hunting in some states..., yet in some of those same states a .440 round ball is legal for deer.

    LD
     
  13. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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  14. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    CWD is a serious threat to any deer herd. This is the reason most state DNRs/F&Gs are being so proactive. Easier to keep it away than to stop it once it rears it's ugly head. My state of Wisconsin is a leader in the nation when it comes to diagnosis and control. Many other states have adopted their ideas and plans. To see how concerned they are about it, take a quick read here about what they think we as hunters need to do to help.

    https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/documents/transmission.pdf
     
  15. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    I wouldn't head shoot her if the OP wants to have her tested, they need to pull the lymph nodes under/inboard of the jaw.

    Wyoming has endemic CWD over pretty much the whole state, especially the southeast where I live. It's a nasty disease caused by Prions, just like scrapie or mad cow. I have all my cervids tested, haven't gotten one back positive yet, even though the infection rates for deer in the area can run 10%, and elk even higher.

    That deer does look pretty shabby, like some of the CWD pics you see around here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  16. SoonerMedic

    SoonerMedic Member

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    Ahhh I learned something new today!
     
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  17. Rat Robb

    Rat Robb Member

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    Not trying to start a fight, but as someone mentioned above, one of the leading propellants of CWD is baiting/feeders/unnatrual feeding areas. If you are worried about it, I find it odd that you ask if a deer looks like it has CWD standing underneath your feeder. Just my .02.

    -Robb
     
  18. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    If feeding wild deer contributed significantly to CWD all the deer in OK and TX would have CWD. i've done considerable research on CWD. Deer farms and hunting ranches are major contributors to CWD in the US deer herd. CWD infected deer have been shipped to deer farms in other states. There is big money involved here and it's a hot button issue. Yep, "hunters" pay big money to shoot a semi-domesticated buck deer with huge antlers inside a rather small enclosure.

    Deer/elk farms and hunting ranches are big business in Wisconsin and elsewhere. Wisconsin pays for every animal they shoot on CWD infected deer/elk farms.

    https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...06/26/chronic-wasting-disease-deer-farms.aspx

    https://datcp.wi.gov/Documents/180611IACtyDeerFarmCWDResults.pdf

    http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2014/02/wisconsin-tracks-81-deer-from-game-farm.html
     
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  19. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Similar things have been said from folks in other states too. Until it shows up that is. Hard to pass along a disease that ain't there yet. Very easy to pass it along once it is, by concentrating deer in a small area where they are exposed to the saliva and feces of other animals. Your considerable research should have told you that. Along with the info on how the disease spreads, your research should have told you there is no cure or immunization for it. Even if there was, there's no practical way to apply it to wild deer. The only way to defend your deer herd is to prevent the spread, by trying to not concentrate animals over a period of time, in a small area. Three thousand acres means nuttin' iffin one keeps a feeder in the same spot for years. Prions live indefinitely in the soil. Only takes one sick deer.

    This is true. The disease was first identified in captive mule deer in Colorado back in the 60s. Science believes the disease may have been present in free-ranging populations of mule deer for more than 40 years prior. One of the theories is it is a mutated form of Scrapie, a TSE of domestic sheep. It is possible, though never proven, that deer came into contact with scrapie-infected sheep either on shared pastures or in captivity somewhere along the front range of the Rocky Mountains, where high levels of sheep grazing occurred in the early 1900s.

    Wisconsin pays for every domestic deer killed because deer at captive cervid facilities are considered livestock, they are covered under "Condemnation of Diseased Animals," Chapter 95.31 of Wisconsin statutes.

    The statute reads: "(DATCP) may condemn animals that are affected with or exposed to a contagious or infectious disease if the department determines that it is necessary to do so to prevent or control the spread of the disease. Condemned animals shall be slaughtered or destroyed as directed by the department."

    Further "the department shall pay indemnities on livestock condemned and slaughtered or destroyed."

    State Law and applies to all livestock. Still, most deer, especially those "Trophy Bucks" are worth more than the $1300 a piece, paid to the farmer in the first linked article, that had 228 animals destroyed. Not really a money maker for him.

    As for Deer/Elk Farms being big business in Wisconsin, the majority used to be sold out of state to ranches in other states where High Fence hunting is more the norm.....like Texas, where the genetics for Wisconsisn's big bodied, big antlered bucks is desired.. Shooting preserves/high fence ranches for hunting deer here in Wisconsin is a pretty limited cottage industry. Just too much quality hunting on private and public land in the state for it to be the "big business" you claim. Another reason for captive deer is for the collection of urine and other body fluids used in hunting scents and attractants. This too is "big business".

    If you are a deer hunter, you need to be concerned about CWD. It is even theorized, that it may be possible that CWD is a spontaneous TSE that arose in deer in the wild or in captivity and has biological features promoting transmission to other deer and elk. This means even tho it ain't there yet and all the new rules and regs for the transportation and interstate commerce of live deer are now in place, it could still happen. Nobody really knows. All we know is that it is readily transmitted thru close contact. It does not matter if that close contact happens behind a fence or out in the wild. When you have the unnaturally high numbers of deer like we do now, and are supplement feeding them in the same area over a period of time, you are asking for problems, even when CWD is not present. Other diseases like Bovine TB and others also proliferate when these conditions are around.
     
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  20. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    I agree, but this farm is raising registered cattle and there are over 200 mature animals plus calves. There are so many deer eating out of the calf creep feeders that the calves have to wait until the deer are finished. They are already concentrated in one area. It is my job to thin the herd and no way am I going to be shooting around these high dollar cattle. That is why the feeder is there. I would much rather "HUNT" deer. To me sitting over a feeder is about as boring as watching grass grow.
     
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  21. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    The state of WI can call deer whatever they want to. Fact is the states of WI, OH and others have failed miserably to protect the wild deer herds from CWD spawned on deer/elk farms.
     
  22. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    Do you even know what WI has done to prevent the spread of CWD, or are you just getting info off the internet from websites you want to believe? As I said before, Many states after discovering CWD, have modeled their response to it after Wisconsin's, I suspect if it was that miserable, they would have found their own way. Thing is, no one knew back in 1999, when WI first started to monitor and test for the disease, where it came from or how it was spread(20 years later we still don't........and it ain't because nobody's tryin'). When it was first found in 2002, the state took drastic measures to prevent the spread in the wild herd, but it was the hunters and private land owners that resisted. You want to blame the deer/elk farmers, but there is no real proof they were the cause. You may as well be blaming those sheep ranchers from the 1900s. The deer/elk farmers are just as concerned about the spread of CWD as most hunters, if not more so. It is detrimental to their way of making a living as well as their reputations. The cost our state gives them for destroyed animals is no way a profit. Problem is, the only real way to prevent the spread of CWD is not what most hunters in the lower 48 want to see imposed. Easier to blame the state and the DNR/F&G departments than to return predator numbers to what they need to be and to reduce the herds to naturally occurring numbers.
     
  23. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    The state of WI has a very cozy relationship with deer farmers. In 2015 two CWD infected deer escaped from a WI deer farm. The situation came to light only after a CWD infected deer was found on that deer farm.

    "Fairchild Whitetails had 228 deer in a 10-acre enclosure, according to the department; 33 tested positive for CWD, a fatal disease of deer, elk and moose."

    http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/...ic-wasting-disease-b99667550z1-368392881.html

    Population densities of deer farms are not found in the wild. Penning up 228 deer on a ten acre patch of land should be considered a criminal act.

    Earlier this year WI governor Walker ordered the deer/elk ranches to install an additional eight foot or electrical fence. The owners of the deer/elk farms whined the cost would drive them out of business.

    OK does not have a huge deer population. The severe drought in 2010-2015 had an adverse impact on the deer herd. The out of control wild hog situation has limited the growth of the deer herd. My game cameras seldom show more than five deer at our feeders.
     
  24. ponchh

    ponchh Member

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    I am south of the river in zone 13 and had a doe just like that last year. The game warden will definitely want that deer to test (don't shoot it in the head).
    As he educated me on, there is a hundred reasons why the deer is sick. I wouldn't panic because of one sick deer.
     
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  25. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Yes.

    Something else is going on with the deer pictured in the OP. There appears to be an infection or large bruise along the animals spine extending to the base of her tail. There may have been an accident.
     
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