Times are weird, my last trip around the LGS circuit was pretty spooky to me because everyone I saw was pretty much cleaned out of everything except the real bottom of the barrel junk and a handful of odd ball hunting rifles. However I've also just started to get financially stable enough to plan out my next gun buy and thinking it's time to add either an AK or an AR to the collection instead of holding out until I can afford the buy once cry once rifle I wanted. So could I just slap a new upper on as time and money allows if I go with a Sport II or would it at least hold value so I could sell it and buy what I really wanted with minimal money lost? Or should I just stay the course and wait until I can get either an Arsenal or a Colt or whatever?
Would a Smith and Wesson sport be a bad upgrade later gun?
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Varminterror
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Lots of folks hate to hear it, and I’m sure several will scream and shout in this thread, but after building and rebuilding hundreds of AR’s for over 20 years, I can’t say I believe it ever makes sense to spend much money doing substantial upgrades on budget carbines. These rifles are great for what they are, but the second you spend more money, buying parts twice, you’re just sinking money in the sand. Buying a new complete upper and replacing the trigger would be the only “upgrades” I would recommend. Replacing the barrel and floating the handguard, for example, which means replacing the gas block as well, is just a losing proposition - you’ve spent nearly enough to build an entire new upper, and have converted the factory parts to low to no value. Selling the upper complete, or keeping it on hand for its original utility is a greater value.
So my vote is no, I can’t recommend upgrading it later. I’d buy one and use one as is, but I wouldn’t turn it into a value-loss opportunity by upgrading. Just build a new upper or buy/build the new complete rifle later.
So my vote is no, I can’t recommend upgrading it later. I’d buy one and use one as is, but I wouldn’t turn it into a value-loss opportunity by upgrading. Just build a new upper or buy/build the new complete rifle later.
BigBL87
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If you're buying it with the intent to upgrade it into a completely different rifle, I wouldn't go that route.
If, however, you want to get something to have for now it's a solid rifle to start out with and not bad if you just want to have one at a reasonable price. I won't knock the premium brands, but honestly most people don't NEED a premium AR for their purposes. My only AR is a PSA Freedom and it does everything I need it to. Paying more than I did would have been money I wasted that ended up going to ammo, mags, etc..
That being said, if you have the money get the best AR you can. Given the current poltiical climate, I personally would get the M&P Sport if it was all I could afford, and if I was able to/wanted to upgrade later worry about that then. With the current political climate, though, you're going to pay a premium for any AR so you probably won't get the value back no matter what you buy should you sell it.
If, however, you want to get something to have for now it's a solid rifle to start out with and not bad if you just want to have one at a reasonable price. I won't knock the premium brands, but honestly most people don't NEED a premium AR for their purposes. My only AR is a PSA Freedom and it does everything I need it to. Paying more than I did would have been money I wasted that ended up going to ammo, mags, etc..
That being said, if you have the money get the best AR you can. Given the current poltiical climate, I personally would get the M&P Sport if it was all I could afford, and if I was able to/wanted to upgrade later worry about that then. With the current political climate, though, you're going to pay a premium for any AR so you probably won't get the value back no matter what you buy should you sell it.
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brunowbe
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Since you mentioned wanting to add an AK or an AR, then said something about an Arsenal, you should know that their current product is not what it once was. Supply is spotty, the 107s are on par quality wise with WASRs now (not saying WASRs are bad), but cost $200 to $300 more. Their milled AKs still seem to be gtg, but you’re talking $1700ish when they come in and Kvar is the only game in town for them. If you’re going AK, go with new 1.5mm Zastava Zpap or PSA (GF3 or newer models), both passed AKOUs 5,000 test and are recommended by Rob. Only negative about them are that those are all 7.62 and not 5.45 master race of AKs, but PSA did just release their version of a 74.
As to ARs, I have no opinion. I only have one and it never leaves the safe, why shoot it when I can instead shoot one of my AKs? I’m a bit biased.
As to ARs, I have no opinion. I only have one and it never leaves the safe, why shoot it when I can instead shoot one of my AKs? I’m a bit biased.
DustyGmt
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Buy a sport, put a geissele trigger in it and when you want to step up to something more specific to your taste, buy a complete upper. There is nothing wrong with having 1 lower and 2 uppers. The smith has a real nice classy lower too. If I could have my way all my lowers would be Smith's, they have the best logo and they are quality. You may find that having that extra upper kicking around might inspire you to build a new lower...
LiveLife
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I absolutely agree.
I have built quite a few AR15s and PCCs over the years and have a box full of parts that were replaced that I will likely never use (Don't worry, I have been PIF like crazy and planning a mega PIF for H&R in coming weeks in honor of rcmodel).
For the price of completed "bargain" AR, I have been helping people build 18" .223 Wylde MLok ARs with their choice of BCG, trigger, ambi handle, BUIS and accessories often for less than the cost of completed "bargain" rifle using kits from this family run business run by a nice grandma who babysits in her office - https://www.22mods4all.com/5-56-nat...der-kit-1-8-twist-12-mlok-handguard-m4-stock/
My 18" .223 Wylde kits came with BCA barrels which are certified for 1 MOA ... And I have been pleasantly surprised when the completed ARs were tested at 100 yards to produce, yup 1" groups with decent ammo factory or reloads.
Due to pandemic, their inventory is limited but here's 16" .223 Wylde "Match Grade" MLok kit for $370 (You need to buy stripped lower, BCG and BUIS/optics)- https://www.22mods4all.com/223-wyld...rade-builder-kit-1-8-twist-15-mlok-handguard/
16" HBAR 5.56 Nato kit for $310 (You need to buy stripped lower, BCG and BUIS/optics) - https://www.22mods4all.com/5-56-nat...der-kit-1-8-twist-12-mlok-handguard-m4-stock/
Well if I do decide to go with the AK I have been excited to see Kalashnikov USA's 103 series in 7.62 (haven't seen anything on the shelf recently except muzzleloader feed and .270... whatever that is), the other thing that peaked my interest was a local listing for a PSA AK but I didn't know how well those worked out. Only problem was it was a magpul model and I was kind of hoping for a more purist start to AK ownership.
Mosin Bubba
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Those box-stock carbines are a good way to get an idea of what you want or don't want in an AR, and if you're pretty happy with it the way it is, that same gun will keep you running for awhile. But if you start feeling the itch for upgrades, it's best to just start anew with a new rifle.
An upper swap? Ehhh, there's nothing stopping it from working, but lowers are usually the cheap part. I'd just spend the extra dough to build a second lower the way I want it, rather than shotgun-wed the upper I really want to a generic milspec carbine lower.
A giant asterisk of course with all this, it assumes there's a healthy AR market with new uppers, lowers, etc in stock. Given that we're heading into an unpredictable double-whammy of virus and election uncertainty with a lot of moving parts to both, that's not a safe assumption we can make. The best we can do is play it by ear.
An upper swap? Ehhh, there's nothing stopping it from working, but lowers are usually the cheap part. I'd just spend the extra dough to build a second lower the way I want it, rather than shotgun-wed the upper I really want to a generic milspec carbine lower.
A giant asterisk of course with all this, it assumes there's a healthy AR market with new uppers, lowers, etc in stock. Given that we're heading into an unpredictable double-whammy of virus and election uncertainty with a lot of moving parts to both, that's not a safe assumption we can make. The best we can do is play it by ear.
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brunowbe
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PSA has already released their AK103 in both standard form and with a folding stock. They’re both sold out, but I am sure they have some alert system of letting you know when they’re available. I’m also curious about K USAs version, as it hopefully leads either K USA or PSA to build an AK 101/102 or AK 12 clone in 5.56. That’s really the only AK caliber I am interested in adding at this point.
Dave DeLaurant
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I'm not that deep into AR stuff, so please forgive me if I put my foot in it. Think of this as an outsider's view:
ARs are Legos, unless there's some kind of special incompatibility issues with the S&W lower. If you want an AR now, and Sport II is what you can get and you can live with the price, go for it. You could upgrade whatever components you want temporarily, then swap all the stock parts back if you choose to sell off the S&W later. You won't hurt anything by moving parts around, and you could reuse the upgraded components on another platform. You even might find you like the S&W, and decide to keep it in the safe as-is after you get something else.
Ditto with adding a whole new custom upper if you want -- I can't see a problem having spares, as long as basic AR compatibility is maintained.
Just accept that you'll probably lose some serious money buying any AR at retail right now, based on what has happened following previous panic buying sprees. We're deep into a seller's market -- FWIW, I just sold a used Glock 30 on LGS consignment for $950, when in more normal times I'd be lucky to get $600 for it. It had enough aftermarket upgrades and extra mags to be worth $950 (plus I threw in 120 rounds of ammo), but ordinarily that stuff doesn't count toward resale value.
If saving money is important and what you really want is something better/different and you can wait a year (or two), you could probably make a killing on an upmarket trade-in once the majority of Americans feel they are out of crisis mode. Whenever that actually happens.
ARs are Legos, unless there's some kind of special incompatibility issues with the S&W lower. If you want an AR now, and Sport II is what you can get and you can live with the price, go for it. You could upgrade whatever components you want temporarily, then swap all the stock parts back if you choose to sell off the S&W later. You won't hurt anything by moving parts around, and you could reuse the upgraded components on another platform. You even might find you like the S&W, and decide to keep it in the safe as-is after you get something else.
Ditto with adding a whole new custom upper if you want -- I can't see a problem having spares, as long as basic AR compatibility is maintained.
Just accept that you'll probably lose some serious money buying any AR at retail right now, based on what has happened following previous panic buying sprees. We're deep into a seller's market -- FWIW, I just sold a used Glock 30 on LGS consignment for $950, when in more normal times I'd be lucky to get $600 for it. It had enough aftermarket upgrades and extra mags to be worth $950 (plus I threw in 120 rounds of ammo), but ordinarily that stuff doesn't count toward resale value.
If saving money is important and what you really want is something better/different and you can wait a year (or two), you could probably make a killing on an upmarket trade-in once the majority of Americans feel they are out of crisis mode. Whenever that actually happens.
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LiveLife
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Current run on guns (like the previous times) is the worst time to buy an AR as OP will likely pay double or triple the money (If not more).
That's why many are suggesting not buying now and some suggested OP build the AR as kits are still obtainable and priced decent and OP can end up with "custom" AR with preferred parts for about the half the price of low end AR now.
Why pay more for AR that will produce 3"-4"+ groups at 100 yards when you can build one that will produce 1" groups at half the price? https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...a-bad-upgrade-later-gun.875487/#post-11650765
Blkhrt13
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Yeah now you have me thinking. Maybe i should get some parts together .I w2as having the questions you did and now im looking at the other answers.hmmmmm.
DustyGmt
Member
I consider myself lucky, not that I'm buying guns right now but my LGS is still getting glocks in from time to time, I've seen a few 43's and 43X's go for $450-$475. AR'S are kind of stupid right now, even still $750 for a Sport isnt really that bad IMO. I know they were going for alot less at one time but $750 for a quality AR doesnt seem outrageous to me, especially when 15+ years ago I would see DPMS oracles sell consistently for $800+. I think the Sport is superior to the DPMS and Armalite basics from back in the day...
Dave DeLaurant
Member
As a really off-topic aside about stupid money, my same LGS currently has a used Glock 43 on consignment for $1.3K and I'm sure it will eventually sell. In fact, if the buyer had included a couple boxes of ammo it would have sold almost at once. This special case is a California peculiarity -- Glocks of all kinds are in short supply now, new G43s aren't available for sale here (long story) and this one example slipped onto the used market here via a technicality (another long story I don't really understand).
The moral is that for any desired product, supply + demand = price.
BigBlue 94
Member
I have 3 uppers and one assembled lower. I have an 80% lower and all the parts to assemble it but havent gotten to it yet. I also have enough spare parts to build another upper, with only buying a bolt, bolt key, gas tube, and carbine or mid length barrel. Both lowers are/will be A2 configuration.
With the current world situation, having spare parts for a working-gun is not a bad idea, even if they are generic mil-spec parts.
I have no issue modifying any AR, as its easy to return it to stock and use those goodie parts elsewhere. I just put an old MI-SS freefloat tube from my 5.56 upper onto the midlength barrel of my Beowulf. It was an entry level upper from AA.
With the current world situation, having spare parts for a working-gun is not a bad idea, even if they are generic mil-spec parts.
I have no issue modifying any AR, as its easy to return it to stock and use those goodie parts elsewhere. I just put an old MI-SS freefloat tube from my 5.56 upper onto the midlength barrel of my Beowulf. It was an entry level upper from AA.
browningguy
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The S&W Sport II doesn't really need any upgrades except a trigger, and even that is better than most milspec triggers I have used. The barrels are a little heavier as they are thicker under the handguards than most, but in my opinion that's a good thing.
I won one in a 3 gun shoot years ago that had the plain A2 handguard that I decided to upgrade for a HD carbine. I installed a 13" VISM drop in (not free float) handguard, Kaw Valley Linear compensator, a CMC trigger, Strikefire extended charging handle, Surefire G2 light and put a Vortec Strikefire co-witnessed with the sights it came with (A2 front and Mbus rear). It runs great and shoots decent groups.
But to be honest-
if you get a new one with the MOE handguards you don't need to change them out
the factory trigger feels better than most milspec triggers to me so that's not required
an optic is an option, the factory irons work well and the factory Mbus rear seems very sturdy even if it is plastic
every HD gun needs a light in my opinion and the factory MOE handguards allow you to mount one
for an HD gun you could get by with the factory flash hider, but the linear compensators really do seem to reduce muzzle blast, if not noise
If I was doing it today the only change would be to go to a Sig Romeo 5 or Romeo 7 red dot for the extended battery life and auto wake up. All of the parts I have changed are easily replaced with the OE parts, but the Sport II should last your lifetime with no issues.
I won one in a 3 gun shoot years ago that had the plain A2 handguard that I decided to upgrade for a HD carbine. I installed a 13" VISM drop in (not free float) handguard, Kaw Valley Linear compensator, a CMC trigger, Strikefire extended charging handle, Surefire G2 light and put a Vortec Strikefire co-witnessed with the sights it came with (A2 front and Mbus rear). It runs great and shoots decent groups.
But to be honest-
if you get a new one with the MOE handguards you don't need to change them out
the factory trigger feels better than most milspec triggers to me so that's not required
an optic is an option, the factory irons work well and the factory Mbus rear seems very sturdy even if it is plastic
every HD gun needs a light in my opinion and the factory MOE handguards allow you to mount one
for an HD gun you could get by with the factory flash hider, but the linear compensators really do seem to reduce muzzle blast, if not noise
If I was doing it today the only change would be to go to a Sig Romeo 5 or Romeo 7 red dot for the extended battery life and auto wake up. All of the parts I have changed are easily replaced with the OE parts, but the Sport II should last your lifetime with no issues.
FL-NC
Member
You could go fully modular with 2 different uppers.
DustyGmt
Member
Now that's a nice sport.
CptnAwesome
Member
As far as the rifle "holding its value “. If you buy in this market odds are that if /when the scare is over and the market stabilizes again whatever you buy will be selling for less than you paid for it. Especially with the budget AR line.
I'm not saying I wouldn't buy right now because I would if I wanted one. Just keep in mind you'll more than likely be paying an inflated price.
I'm not saying I wouldn't buy right now because I would if I wanted one. Just keep in mind you'll more than likely be paying an inflated price.
marksman13
Member
Really depends on what you have in mind. I certainly would not have an issue with buying an M&P Sport in order to have a functional rifle I could afford right now and turn it into what I really want as cash flow allows. As with anything, there are several schools of thought here and none of them are really wrong. Some guys prefer to hang on to their cash until they can afford the absolute best. Some guys prefer to buy premium parts and build their own rifles. Some guys like to do as you are suggesting and buy a base rifle and then add quality parts over time. I’ve done all three and have no problem with whatever route a person chooses to go for building a solid AR-15.
doubleh
Member
Why not? It's only money and it isn't worth much anymore plus your options are a bit limited right now. I bought a M&P before the Sport showed up and I have done some upgrades to it and some upgrades to the original upgrades. I'm well satisfied with it right now but who knows, that may change down the road and I will do another upgrade. They are the 10/22 of centerfires and that's the fun part of owning one. Make it like you want and if you decide to, just change things down the road. That's what makes both guns fun guns. Just don't go crazy and do things you can't afford to do.
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