Would an SKS or Mini 14 be a good temporary buy?

[CraigC]

Not to mention that whatever is wrong with that "cheap AR" can be fixed in minutes with basic tools.

In the context of a fighting rifle, I'm baffled that we even have to have this discussion in 2021. The SKS was deemed obsolete by the people who invented it decades ago. They are long, heavy and purely a relic of the time they come from. Their whole appeal in the US revolved around the fact that they were cheap and used cheap surplus ammo. While the AR platform might not technically be but a few years newer, it has certainly evolved with the times. The platform has become highly modular and the design has been very easy to update as needs and tactics evolve. As a modern day defensive weapon, the SKS can't compete.

The AK, on the other hand, has seen some attempts to modernize it. The platform just isn't very conducive to it. There are basic design hurdles that cannot be overcome. The reciprocating charging handle on the right side, mags that don't drop free and must be physically removed before they are replaced, mediocre sights, an awkward safety and limited attachments are issues that must basically be trained around. If you took two equally skilled 3-gun shooters, one with an AR and one with the most advanced AK, the AR shooter is going to run circles around the AK shooter.

 

[wmgeorge]

Well said Craig, the AK was built for the masses where 3 or 4 (or more) inches at 100 yards is fine and they can be dropped in mud and never cleaned and because of the loose construction still kill people. SKS same thing but no magazine for the peasants to loose in the rice patty. Frankly an AR built to Mil Spec should work, if not its the makers fault. I would guess todays AR's even the cheap ones are miles ahead of either a AK/SKS.

 

[TTv2]

Between the two I'd go with the SKS because the ammo is cheap and the SKS may retain its price over time. The Mini 14... good luck finding people in the future who will want to buy them for more than $400.

I would definitely steer anyone into buying a 7.62x39 rifle right now if they weren't already stocked up on ammo.

 

[Telekinesis]

The AK, on the other hand, has seen some attempts to modernize it. The platform just isn't very conducive to it. There are basic design hurdles that cannot be overcome. The reciprocating charging handle on the right side, mags that don't drop free and must be physically removed before they are replaced, mediocre sights, an awkward safety and limited attachments are issues that must basically be trained around.

The AK has gotten much better in this regard in the last few years, and the AK is still going to be more reliable in adverse conditions and break fewer parts. That’s not to say the AR is unreliable, just that the AK is more so, and every guy I know who trains with an AR carries a spare bolt but none of the AK guys feel the need to carry spare parts.

Things like an Ultimak for adding a red dot and light, or RS Regulate for adding a LPVO. If you need more rail space (IR lasers for NVGs, etc) Occam Defense and Midwest Industries have good mlok rails. Triggers are getting better with ALG. Adjustable gas blocks to keep from over gassing the rifle. Safeties which can be manipulated with just the trigger finger like a Krebs or similar offerings.

Yes, the manual of arms is different, but it’s not necessarily worse. Same thing as if you’re comparing an AR to a M1A (same magazine, charging handle, and optics “issues”). On reloads, if you’re bringing the new mag up before dropping the partial mag like you should be (assuming defensive/combat use, not gaming use) I don’t find the reload speed significantly different between an AR and AK.

I think the biggest drawback to the AK platform (which might affect the OP) is that there are very few AK parts that are truly “drop in”. With AKs if you want a certain style (stock, sights, gas block, etc) you need to buy it that way. Even minor parts like safeties or handgurds might require a file for some minor tweaks. The AR is much more of a user serviceable “change parts on your kitchen table” type of design so you can start off with one type of gun and fairly easily change to something else. Take swapping a standard gas block to an adjustable gas block. Fairly easy on an AR, but you need a 12 ton press to do it on an AK.

Personally I think the accuracy argument is a bit of a moot point. My AKs and ARs shoot the same groups with bulk ammo (2 MOA) and both are more accurate than I am when doing things like shooting around cover or moving while shooting. If you’re talking about a defensive rifle, there are very few people who can take advantage of a 0.25 MOA (or even a 1 MOA) gun.

Granted, a lot of this is personal preference (and I obviously fall on the AK side of things) but you can be just as capable fighting with a well set up AK as you can be with a well set up AR, and at a ~50% ammo savings (which adds up when you’re taking classes).

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Lots of opinions are acquired by a sample size of one, many are formed with zero experience.

As far as reliability, speed and accuracy there is a reason one doesn’t see a lot of AK, SKS, Mini 14 rifles in places like 3 gun matches and such.

You are right about not seeing very many AKs and Mimi 14s in 3 Gun matches. There’s good reasons for this. Number one is user friendly. This is where the AR excels over the others. And then there’s the fact that there are more accessories and upgrades for the AR.
I have a Mini 14, a 180 series. I’ve had it for around 40 years. I like it, but not in love with it.
I’ve owned AKs and have fired several real AK47s. Most of the people that love the AK have never fired a real one. This is me shooting a real Chi-com AK in full auto.


Now I know that there are those that really like the AK or Mini 14, and there’s no problem with that. It’s just the ones that feel that they have to justify why they like them, or the ones that put down other weapons like the AR to make people think the ones they like are better, that rub me wrong.
But the plain and simple fact is that out of the three rifles, the AR is the best deal on the market today.
I also keep hearing people say stay away from the cheap AR, but hardly a brand name to go along with it. I, myself don’t care for the ARs made by Radical Firearms. I’ve personally seen to many issues with them. My buddy carried them in his shop for a shot time. After selling around 200 of them and having issues with about 40% of them, he stopped carrying them.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Not to mention that whatever is wrong with that "cheap AR" can be fixed in minutes with basic tools.

In the context of a fighting rifle, I'm baffled that we even have to have this discussion in 2021. The SKS was deemed obsolete by the people who invented it decades ago. They are long, heavy and purely a relic of the time they come from. Their whole appeal in the US revolved around the fact that they were cheap and used cheap surplus ammo. While the AR platform might not technically be but a few years newer, it has certainly evolved with the times. The platform has become highly modular and the design has been very easy to update as needs and tactics evolve. As a modern day defensive weapon, the SKS can't compete.

The AK, on the other hand, has seen some attempts to modernize it. The platform just isn't very conducive to it. There are basic design hurdles that cannot be overcome. The reciprocating charging handle on the right side, mags that don't drop free and must be physically removed before they are replaced, mediocre sights, an awkward safety and limited attachments are issues that must basically be trained around. If you took two equally skilled 3-gun shooters, one with an AR and one with the most advanced AK, the AR shooter is going to run circles around the AK shooter.

It's true that the AR will outshine the AK when used in "matches", or for hanging doo-dads on. I believe that shine will wear off when it comes to real life, life or death situations, especially when the AK operator is familiar with his rifle. I can change mags as fast on an AK as an AR, you just bump the release with The fresh mag, it falls out and you...wait for it...insert the fresh mag. The safety is not awkward when used as designed, and the charging handle is not an issue, in a real life situation. I sure agree that "cheap AR's" can be fixed in minutes with basic tools. I think there are very few "cheap" AR's that are of super low quality. Some exceptions perhaps?

On the SKS, I would not say that it is purely a relic, I think it's still a "serviceable" rifle, and a step above a bolt action battle rifle.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I suppose the problem with the AR is that I was really hoping to get something from Aero, at least the Upper. From what I've heard up until this point aren't you supposed to not buy something like a budget AR just to swap out all the parts anyway?

I've been trying to find a range that has both AR and AK that I could rent and try side by side to see what I prefer but so far the closest range in reasonable driving distance only has a Zastava. I might consider the A2, I actually really appreciate the old 80s look (with a flat railed top at least, fixed handguards are just getting in the way of the AR's awesome optic mounting design); but so far in stores best I've found is they're just stocking up on the ultra low end budget stuff.

I was not thinking of swapping out "all the parts", just changing uppers. I don't think there's any AR on the market that requires swapping out all the parts, or any of the small parts. I'm not even sure about the bolt. Get on youtube and search out reviews on the low budget rifles. You may find many of them good to go.

If one really wants budget and quality, start with a bare lower, get a quality parts kit, and then any upper desired. I'm glad you appreciate the A2. Personally I prefer the carry handle uppers, as only under threat of having to eat caca would I hang a single doo-dad, or anything containing batteries or glass on a battle rifle. But I'm just weird like that, and certainly in the minority.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Another option might be a bolt action Ruger American Ranch which are both available in 5.56 and 7.62x39. The 5.56 model uses standard AR mags, so whatever amount of mags you buy would be shared with your 5.56 AR.

 

[wmgeorge]

If you want to call my new Anderson AM15 low priced that is fine but they have made rifles for years and years and parts for Colt and others re-sold at a great mark up. Some of you folks are living in the past, times change and the market changes. This target posted else where on here was shot this morning in 90 deg temps but its a 1 inch group at 25 yards, can your AK do that?

 

[JeeperCreeper]

SKS will hold value. They are climbing like crazy.

Agreed with this. SKS is highly unlikely to decrease in value, like almost all surplus arms.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

If you want to call my new Anderson AM15 low priced that is fine but they have made rifles for years and years and parts for Colt and others re-sold at a great mark up. Some of you folks are living in the past, times change and the market changes. This target posted else where on here was shot this morning in 90 deg temps but its a 1 inch group at 25 yards, can your AK do that?

A 1” group at 25 yards should naturally yield roughly a 4” group at 100 yards. Many modern AKs with good barrels (Arsenals, Zastava, etc.) can do 4” or better at that distance.

 

[tarosean]

SKS no magazine not made to any standard except stamped out cheap enough for poor peasants to use and lose. When they were less that $100 or $75 USD good enough for a hang in the farm / ranch truck gun, never $400!!

Roughly half of that 400 is inflation. That leaves a 200 dollar increase spanning 35yrs +..Not exactly a stellar return on a banned from import commodity.

 

[wmgeorge]

Deleted

 

[MAKster]

See I think the difference is that a cheap AR in my experience is not as reliable as a cheap SKS. A mid tier AR definitely is though.

The "cheap" SKS rifles are long gone. A beat to crap Chinese SKS that has been stored in a cave in Albania for the past 30 years is selling for $450-500. It will have lots of rust and the stock will look terrible.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

If you want to call my new Anderson AM15 low priced that is fine but they have made rifles for years and years and parts for Colt and others re-sold at a great mark up. Some of you folks are living in the past, times change and the market changes. This target posted else where on here was shot this morning in 90 deg temps but its a 1 inch group at 25 yards, can your AK do that?

Actually yes, I've seen two different AK74's at an Appleseed shoot do that. Can't speak for the AK47. However, looks like you need to go a few clicks up and to the right. !!!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

The "cheap" SKS rifles are long gone. A beat to crap Chinese SKS that has been stored in a cave in Albania for the past 30 years is selling for $450-500. It will have lots of rust and the stock will look terrible.

It does seem to me that prices are way up on the SKS, and good ones are hard to find. I have a very nice Russian example that I got years ago, and I like it a lot. But, right now I wouldn't get one over an AR. As I've mentioned before, I certainly would not sell it, now that I have it. Again, a "serviceable" rifle, but maybe not the first gun to grab, or take to a match or contest. As with any rifle, being intimately familiar and practiced with it will negate many of it's short falls.

 

[orionengnr]

In the last 40 years or so, I have owned at least half a dozen ARs in 5.56. a few more in .300 BLK, and two in x39.

Also, three Mini-14s, one Mini-30, and an AK or two (no SKSs, but I have fired them)

The AR is my favorite platform of the three, but I still have a Mini-14 and a Mini-30.

IMHO, the AR in x39 is a really nice combination. The Mini is a different shooting experience, but enjoyable in its own way.

AKs and SKSs....sorry, I just don't see the attraction. YMMV.

If you get a chance to shoot each, I think you will answer the question yourself.

 

[wmgeorge]

Yeah, I need to spend more time and more than 11 rounds finalizing the sight in. But at age 78 I do not take this heat well. Sure put a match barrel or whatever on a AK47 and it could shoot like this. But this is a off the shelf lower cost AR from Anderson lets compare apples to apples. If you want to spend $400 on a SKS vs $600 on a AR go for it. I will try to support made in USA whenever I can.

 

[Speedo66]

Whoever bought an SKS when they were dirt cheap is probably never going to stop liking them.

There was nothing comparable to them in that price range back then and they were incredible bargains, along with the cheap ammo available at the time.

Fast forward 30+ years and prices of them have risen, so not the bargains they once were. Back then AR’s were very expensive, not the case now.

But comparing them, as some AR owners feel compelled to do every time an SKS is mentioned, is never going to convince a long time SKS owner that they’re terrible, useless guns, one step above throwing rocks. We know better.

Shockingly, not everyone wants an AR, regardless of how “superior” they are.

 

[CraigC]

The AK has gotten much better in this regard in the last few years, and the AK is still going to be more reliable in adverse conditions and break fewer parts. That’s not to say the AR is unreliable, just that the AK is more so, and every guy I know who trains with an AR carries a spare bolt but none of the AK guys feel the need to carry spare parts.

Personally, I think the issue of reliability is as overblown as that of accuracy, in the other direction. No doubt that the AR is far more accurate, what is overblown is how much it actually makes a difference to the average user. For some it does and for those, it's a huge difference. However, I made no comments about accuracy.

Yes, the manual of arms is different, but it’s not necessarily worse. Same thing as if you’re comparing an AR to a M1A (same magazine, charging handle, and optics “issues”). On reloads, if you’re bringing the new mag up before dropping the partial mag like you should be (assuming defensive/combat use, not gaming use) I don’t find the reload speed significantly different between an AR and AK.

Better or worse, it's definitely slower to manipulate. I don't see how this can even be argued.

Granted, a lot of this is personal preference (and I obviously fall on the AK side of things) but you can be just as capable fighting with a well set up AK as you can be with a well set up AR, and at a ~50% ammo savings (which adds up when you’re taking classes).

I think a well trained shooter can be very effective with an AK and I surely enjoy mine but the drawbacks are impossible for me to ignore.

 

[CraigC]

It's true that the AR will outshine the AK when used in "matches", or for hanging doo-dads on. I believe that shine will wear off when it comes to real life, life or death situations, especially when the AK operator is familiar with his rifle. I can change mags as fast on an AK as an AR, you just bump the release with The fresh mag, it falls out and you...wait for it...insert the fresh mag. The safety is not awkward when used as designed, and the charging handle is not an issue, in a real life situation. I sure agree that "cheap AR's" can be fixed in minutes with basic tools. I think there are very few "cheap" AR's that are of super low quality. Some exceptions perhaps?

On the SKS, I would not say that it is purely a relic, I think it's still a "serviceable" rifle, and a step above a bolt action battle rifle.

I'm not talking about matches or gamer guns. Those "doo dads" aren't just for decoration and kinda matter when you need the rifle at night. The AR just more easily facilitates that need. There's also no getting around the fact that the AK mag change and safety/charging handle manipulation takes more time to accomplish. The AR's ergos are just better in that regard. I own both and have no emotional investment in either. The AR is just an easier platform for the shooter to setup as a modern fighting rifle and run fast.

The capability of having a good side folding stock may be an advantage for some. Certainly the modern designs like the Magpul go a long way towards bridging that gap.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Well I think you may be right in theory. Or just plain right. Have you ever pulled you fresh AK mag, bumped the release with it, and then inserted it? If there is a difference in speed, I don't think it's a life saving one. I think that has some truth to it pertaining to working the bolt or manipulating the safety. The odds of 1/4 of a second saving one's life is miniscule. As far as the doo-dads, (and gizmos) for me, they just add weight, interfere with carrying and handling the rifle, and are just things to catch on other things, break, or fail. I like a "clean", well balanced and as light as possible rifle, (but I love the M1) and I know that's just me, and I am far in the minority as to my preferences. Lights on a rifle sure make for a nice aiming point for your adversary. A bullet magnet. !!! I know that someone putting a light on me would be an invitation to open fire, on that light.

So, I hear ya. But you can have all the doo-dads, I'll keep my rifle clean. May we both survive!

 

[Rubone]

Anything as a "temporary buy" is nonsense. Get what you want, it is all out there and not difficult to source with a bit of diligence. Do not fall into a "I've got to have it now because so and so said so" mindset. If you do not know what you want that is a different story and you need to be sure what works for you, no one else knows the answer to that question! Try them all, see what does it for you.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

It's true that the AR will outshine the AK when used in "matches", or for hanging doo-dads on. I believe that shine will wear off when it comes to real life, life or death situations, especially when the AK operator is familiar with his rifle. I can change mags as fast on an AK as an AR, you just bump the release with The fresh mag, it falls out and you...wait for it...insert the fresh mag. The safety is not awkward when used as designed, and the charging handle is not an issue, in a real life situation. I sure agree that "cheap AR's" can be fixed in minutes with basic tools. I think there are very few "cheap" AR's that are of super low quality. Some exceptions perhaps?

On the SKS, I would not say that it is purely a relic, I think it's still a "serviceable" rifle, and a step above a bolt action battle rifle.

I go back to my old saying. “There are a lot of people that know a lot about things they know very little about.”
I carried and trained with the M16A1and the A2. I used the A2 in combat against others that had AK47s. At the end of the day, I had ammo leftover and an AK47 that someone no longer had use far.
You talk about people hanging doo dads on ARs. Those of us that like the AR platform are not a bunch of mall ninjas and put all kind of useless stuff on our weapons.
Here’s three of my ARs set up the way I like them. They are set up with utility in mind.

Lights on a rifle sure make for a nice aiming point for your adversary. !!! I know that someone putting a light on me would be an invitation to open fire, on that light.

Have you ever had to clear a building at night? And I can say with confidence that you have never had a weapon light in you face at night. It’s kind of hard to shoot and hit something when you can’t see.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Can you still pull the trigger with a light in your eyes, oh wise one, or does it paralyze the trigger finger? Your rifles do not look overly gizzmo'd, or overly doo-dadded.

You certainly have lots of confidence. I have had very bright flash lights and weapons pointed at me at night. How can you say I never have? However, at the time I was not armed, and so had to comply. So I suppose lights are great if your adversary is un-armed. But if a light can disable one's trigger finger, I want to know more about that!

I don't dislike the AR platform. Another assumption that carries a bit too much confidence. I just like it clean, and your rifles look clean enough for me.