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Would banning guns stop the worst mass murders?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by jsalcedo, Mar 14, 2004.

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  1. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    Top 15 Mass Murders (U.S.)

    Rank #Murdered Criminal Year Method Used
    ---- --------- -------- ---- -----------
    1 297 William Estel Brown 1937 Natural gas explosion
    2 217 Gameel El Batouty 1999 Egypt Air 990, deliberate crash
    3 200+ H. Lucas and Otis Toole 1970's Strangulation, knife
    4 200+ Tommy Lynn Sells 1980's Knife
    5 168 Timothy McVeigh 1995 Chemical explosion
    6 150 Herman W. Mudgett 1890's Torture
    7 87 Julio Gonzales 1990 Gasoline arson
    8 75+ Ted Bundy 1970's Strangulation, knife
    9 67 Randolph Kraft 1970's Strangulation
    10 58 Donald Harvey 1970's Medicine, toxins
    11 49 "Green River Killer" 1980's Strangulation, clubs
    12 45 "San Diego Murderer" 1980's Strangulation
    13 44 John G. Graham 1957 Airplane bomb
    14 43 Andrew Kehoe Bath 1927 dynamite bomb, MI school
    15 "30-40" Charles Cullen 1990's Medical overdoses
     
  2. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    Yes, but ... these people are not as dead as the ones killed with guns. LOL

    Interesting list. I remember #7. Some of these guys are actually serial killers rather than mass murderers, as the former commit their crimes over a long period of time.
     
  3. Nathanael_Greene

    Nathanael_Greene Member

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    The real mass-murders are the heads of state. Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot, Mugabe, etc.

    And for the most part, they banned gun ownership among their citizens.

    So it's clear--banning guns does not reduce violence. All it does is provide an incentive for those who still have weapons to use them.
     
  4. Samurai Penguin

    Samurai Penguin Member

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    You forgot one:

    # Murdered: 3000+
    Scumbag: Osama bin Ladin & party of fanatics
    Date: 9/11/01
    Method: A package of boxcutters and four jetliners. Notice the conspicuous lack of guns...!
     
  5. Travis McGee

    Travis McGee Member

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    Actually, banning guns LEADS to the worst mass-murders.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Barbara

    Barbara Member

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    Sure it would..and banning incest and polygamy would have stopped the animal in Fresno this week.
     
  7. PATH

    PATH Member

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    Ditto!:fire:
     
  8. lee n. field

    lee n. field Member

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    Genocide is murder on the largest scale. Confiscation of arms is a necessary but not sufficent precondition for genocide. So, no, banning guns would not stop the worst mass murders.

    John Lott on gun control and mass public shootings: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=161637
     
  9. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Hmmm, I find the premise flawed.

    Guns are banned to expedite mass murders, not prevent them!
     
  10. glocksman

    glocksman Member

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    Your list combines mass murderers (such as the bomber Andrew Kehoe) with serial killers (such as Ted Bundy).

    There is a difference.

    From wikipedia.
    In most cases, a gun wouldn't do many serial killer victims much good, as the killer seems normal to the victim until he feels safe in dropping the mask. This was how Ted Bundy operated.



     
  11. Stand_Watie

    Stand_Watie Member

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    Is Peurto Rico part of the US or not? There was an arson murder there in 89 or 90 that would be between 6 and 7 on your list. Clayton Cramer documents this on his website at

    www.claytoncramer.com

    (The guy is truly a giant in the world of the intellectual firearms rights movement)

    A guy in south korea killed 100+ a couple years ago with a milk carton full of gasoline on the subway.
     
  12. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    Ditto above, especially what OBL had done in NY & now in Spain.:fire:
     
  13. M1911Owner

    M1911Owner Member

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    Let's get this into perspective (these are estimates from memory):

    * Stalin: 50,000,000 +/-; guns were banned

    * Hilter: 6,000,000 Jews, a bunch of others as well; guns were banned

    * Pol Pot: 3,000,000 +/-

    * The genocide in Rwanda; no guns, the killing was done with machetes
     
  14. J Jones

    J Jones member

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    Mao got over 30 million it would seem.

    Hitler got around 15-20 million, since he didn't just kill 6 million Jews, something I'd wish the media would point out once in a while.
     
  15. BHPshooter

    BHPshooter Member

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    As has been mentioned (but I just had to add to it), the WORST mass murderers used gun control as a key element to their dirty deeds.

    Think Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, ad nauseum.

    All one needs to remember is how much of a run for their money the Jews gave the Nazis when they performed their little ghetto resistance.

    Like has always been said, guns are neither good nor evil (that decision is left up to the user), but in the hands of an underdog, numbers become less relevant.

    Guns, the great equalizer.

    Wes
     
  16. ksnecktieman

    ksnecktieman Member

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    There seems to be a real lack of guns as weapon of choice there. The arson and bombings would have been hard to stop,,,, but??? The individual slayings, gun availability may have shortened the list of victims IF the victims had been armed.

    Does anyone remember the name Susanna Gratia Hupp??? If I recall correctly she was in Killen Texas in the Mcdonalds shooting with her parents. Her pistol was in the glove compartment of her car instead of on her person, and she got to watch her parents murdered.

    If four pilots had guns with them on 9/11/2001 would box cutters have been enough to bring down the twin towers?
     
  17. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    Didn't she run for office on a pro-CCW platform?
     
  18. RobW

    RobW Member

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    Sad thing is, this will not convince a single intolerant aka "Liberal" because their goal is NOT to prevent crimes, or protect 'OUR CHIIIIILLLDREN" but to take complete control over the unwashed masses.

    They consider themselves as "Elite" with the mindset "do what I tell you, don't do what I do!"

    the experience from the French Revolution to Hitler, Stalin, Mao et al. shows that most of them are the first to be crushed in the mill of the most ruthless life-forms trying to get to the top and stay there.

    This is why Lenin called them "useful idiots".
     
  19. Sylvilagus Aquaticus

    Sylvilagus Aquaticus Member

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    Yes, Suzanna Hupp is a state representiative in Texas now. She is one of the principals responsible for our excelllent concealed carry laws here.

    Regards,
    Rabbit.
     
  20. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Member

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    I wouldn't go quite this far, but the truth is close. Gun control is not about controlling violent crime. It is about controlling gun owners because we make the gun-controllers uncomfortable. We have freedom and power they lack. It worries them. Protecting the children and violent crime rates are just pretext to justify the real reason, their own inferiority complex.
     
  21. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    it would probably stop as many mass murderers as the laws that ban sexual assault have prevented rapists from assaulting their victims.
     
  22. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk Member

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    Here's one thing most gun control advocates are too narrow-minded to accept: Guns aren't the only method of killing. They aren't even the most efficent way of killing.

    Another thing most gun control advocates won't admit is that they're hypocritical. How many of these people have armed bodyguards? How many of these people have guns themselves?

    What liberals don't tell you is that they are actually in favor of a caste system in which they, as the spearheaders, are in an upper caste and entitled to the priviledges thereof while we, the people they're supposedly representing and/or trying to proect, are a subordinate caste that is not entitled to priviledges such as tax shelters, gun ownership, and even possession and opperation of powerful four-wheel-drive pickups and SUVs (in the name of protecting the environment). They will enjoy these things and do so braizenly while we struggle and suffer to make a living and provide for our families both in terms of material posessions and safety.
     
  23. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    If anything, the presence of guns in society has kept the body count from mass murders lower. As others have noted, the real "pro's" all used fire, explosives or gasses to do thier dirty work. The anti-gun movment also unwittingly contributes to this, as their demonizes guns into a talisman of power for the dissafected individuals who would commit these acts.

    If Harris and Kleebold had really wanted to destroy Columbine H.S. as they stated they did, they would have done much better to perform some research into where the main sprinkler valve shutoffs were, and brought some bike chains for the doors, and a few gallons of gasoline.
     
  24. iapetus

    iapetus Member

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    Here's what the Guinness Book of Records says:

    (1985 eddition - we haven't got an up-to-date one at home).

    But the "Crime" section starts with the following:

    CRIME:
    Mass Killings China

    The greatest massacre ever imputed by the government of one soverign nation against the government of another is that of 26,300,000 Chinese during the reign of Mao Tse-tung between 1949 and May 1965.. This accusation was made by an agency of the USSR Government in a radio broadcast on 7 Apr 1969. ... The Walker Report published by the US Senate Committe of the Judiciary in July 1971 placed the parameters of the total death roll within China since 1949 between 32.25 and 61.7 million.

    USSR
    ... estimated loss of life from State repression and terrorism Oct 1917 to Dec 1959 under Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev at 66,700,000.

    Nazi Germany
    ... The best estimate is that 5.8 million Jews were killed in Europe in 1939-1945.

    [Doesn't make any mention of the non-Jews. A recent documentary I saw talked about 70,000 disabled people executed (with a party held in the gas chamber, with bear and wine, to celebrate the 10,000th), and many others forcibly sterilised. I've seen estimates of about 5m Slavs].


    Forced Labour
    [Corrective Labour Camps in the USSR] An estimate published in the Netherlands put the death roll betweel 1921 and 1960 at 19,000,000... best estimate that the number of inmates had been 66 million.

    [China] An estimate published by Bao Ruo-wang ... was 16,000,000 which then [1960s] approached 3% of the population.

    Genocide
    In the genocide in Cambodia, according to the Khmer Rouge foreign minister Ieng Sarg, more than a third of the 8 million Khmers were killed between 17 Apr 1975 and Jan 1979. Under the rule of Saloth Sar alias Pol Pot ... towns, money and property were abolished and economical execution by bayonet and club were introduced for such offenses as falling asleep during the day, asking too many questions, playing non-Communist music, being old and feeble, being the offspring of an "undesirable" or being too well educated. Deaths at the Tuol Sleng interrogation camp reached 582 in a day.




    That is the what the Guinness Book of Records' lists first , before it gets onto "normal" crimes like serial killing and mass murder. (Which, if it were an up-to-date edition, would probably include the estimated 250 murders by poison by British doctor Harold Shipman).
     
  25. joab

    joab Member

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    I always find it interesting that it is almost never mentioned that Hitler also tried to purge Homosexuals, the Handicapped, Gypsies, Communist, Trade Unions , Blacks and even Jehova's Witnesses
     
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