Would Nationwide reciprocity add a database

[Yo Mama]

Just like the title says would passing Nationwide reciprocity add a new national database of concealed carry permit holders? Right now I don't know how it works can other states get access to other states databases?

 

[LoneGoose]

With court orders any state or department can get any information they want.

 

[Hasaf]

As I read the bill, I didn't see anything in it that established a database. However, I didn't spend too much time reading it.

I do wonder how it would work in states like California, where the individual firearm to be carried is listed on the permit by make, caliber, and serial number. I suspect that it would be as most expect it to be, as a Utah Resident permit holder I would have to obey the laws related to that permit (no listing of firearms that can be carried). If it weer to pass (unlikely) I think it will spend a lot of time in the courts and see a lot of amending. . . could those amendments add a national registry of permit holders? Of course it could.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I’m hoping it passes as a clean bill.
I’m getting frustrated with the GOP acting like a bunch of cowards and not getting stiff like this done.

I agree, I see DC, CA, NY, MD, MA etc fighting it and doing all the can to ask it hell for us. Just look at DC continually losing in court and they keep denying people the right to get a conceal carry permit. Worse the same lies are spewed over and over about death in the streets.

Of course, I’m also worried with the cast of idiots that were elected in VA that we may be facing some bad UnConstitutional times ahead. And let’s not forget that our idiot AG was re-elected after ending all reciprocal agreements until he was overruled by sane lawmakers.

 

[Blkhrt13]

The Feds already have a database via the 4473 so why worry it?

 

[Chicken-Farmer]

Just make concealed carry an endorsement to a drivers license or state ID card, similar to a motorcycle endorsement. No need to have a separate concealed carry card in your wallet.

 

[Sistema1927]

The Feds already have a database via the 4473 so why worry it?

No they don't. Not in the way that normal people consider what is a database. If a firearm is recovered at a crime then the feds need to start with the manufacturer or importer, and then follow the paper trail from there, going to the FL that first handled it and so on.

For example, let's say that a weapon is found at a crime scene. The manufacturer says that they shipped it to FFL A. FFL A sells it to customer B. Customer B sells it to Individual C. The trail goes cold at Customer B unless he kept a record, for which he has no legal obligation. Even if Individual C later trades it to FFL D, there is no "database" to show that FFL D ever had it in his possession.

 

[Danoobie]

Your Driver's License is subject to reciprocity, and they can verify your DL, can't they?

 

[boom boom]

As I read the bill, I didn't see anything in it that established a database. However, I didn't spend too much time reading it.

I do wonder how it would work in states like California, where the individual firearm to be carried is listed on the permit by make, caliber, and serial number. I suspect that it would be as most expect it to be, as a Utah Resident permit holder I would have to obey the laws related to that permit (no listing of firearms that can be carried). If it weer to pass (unlikely) I think it will spend a lot of time in the courts and see a lot of amending. . . could those amendments add a national registry of permit holders? Of course it could.

Federal law via commerce clause overrides state law--e.g. FOPA in 1986 makes it legal to transverse CA with an AR 15 that would be illegal for a CA resident to own if the FOPA requirements are followed--locked case, unloaded, etc. However, NY City in particular, delights in tormenting folks traveling through NY airports with criminal charges which would seem to be a technical violation of FOPA by NYC and NY State. But the 2nd Circuit Court is anti-gun as well as many district court judges and has allowed it.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20140630/guide-to-the-interstate-transportation

 

[Tirod]

We don't have a national database for wedding licenses, and if one state needs to know about the provenance of a driver's license they all cooperate and exchange data pretty freely. Since a lot of states already have CCW buried in that same system then guess what, there already IS a national database. It's just not housed in one location or run by the Feds, and if common sense is allowed to prevail they would insist on simply dictating the terms, not actually being responsible for it. Decentralized databases are far more secure - don't forget the DOD security clearance database was hacked years ago and a software vendor not only discovered it but the .Gov tried to cover it up.

Centralizing a database by the government would be outed in less than a few days and our Congress would be inundated with our outrage. Not a fight anyone wants to take on and there's no real gain doing it. That money would be targeted for other programs, too.

As for the idea our government isn't capable of ethical actions a deeper look into the news is needed. How many elected representatives have been tossed out of office? How many of our enemies grow older and incapable of serving? There is a wave of change coming on and it will surprise a lot of people when it hits - you could watch CNN all day long and they won't mention it, will they? Depending on the mainstream media means depending on fake news and being fed lies. Simple as that.

Time to wake up, folks, things are not going to be the same in the future. A lot of bad actors are being taken down right now - over 6,000 child abusers swept up and incarcerated, over 4200 sealed indictments in Federal courts. That constitutes well over 4 years work compared to the previous administration and no, you won't hear one word about it on the news. They are covering it up - which should be obvious if you just look around.

The swamp is getting drained, nothing seems to happen much as you dig into the embankment but you do know once the breach is made things tend to accelerate in a hurry. Think about that - our opponents will say and do anything to ruin it, don't even believe half of what you hear there. It's beyond naive to consider them truthful.

 

[Blkhrt13]

They data log every single digital key stroke. Text and phone call. I assure you they know who bought what gun first when it hits the background check. Private sales not being passed via ffl is the new thing they are pushing for.

 

[larryh1108]

I’m getting frustrated with the GOP acting like a bunch of cowards and not getting stiff like this done.

Really?
He's been in office less than a year.He's had his hands full with North Korea, a new budget and a new tax plan. He's been trying to fill his staff with his own people, putting up with the Dems trying to impeach him for Russian collusion and he's trying to fix our broken health care system. I say that your "getting frustrated" with the GOP acting like a "bunch of cowards" is totally self serving and just plain out of line, IMO of course.

 

[BSA1]

The Feds already have a database via the 4473 so why worry it?

As any computer nerd and they will tell you NOTHING is ever truly deleted from computer files. Look at how investigators have recovered emails on the computers that HRH and her lackeys destroyed.

No they don't. Not in the way that normal people consider what is a database. If a firearm is recovered at a crime then the feds need to start with the manufacturer or importer, and then follow the paper trail from there, going to the FL that first handled it and so on.

It is not about knowing where the guns are. It is about knowing who the gun owners are.

Your Driver's License is subject to reciprocity, and they can verify your DL, can't they?

My Drivers License number is the same on my Conceal Carry License which makes it pointless for me to show a LEO my C.C.L. to them. They know when they run my D.L. number.

They data log every single digital key stroke. Text and phone call. I assure you they know who bought what gun first when it hits the background check. Private sales not being passed via ffl is the new thing they are pushing for.

Yep and California is the model state showing how it is being done. Not only with guns but now ammunition. The real purpose of requiring background checks of ammunition is it is easier to identify gun owners.

As for the idea our government isn't capable of ethical actions a deeper look into the news is needed...Time to wake up, folks, things are not going to be the same in the future...The swamp is getting drained, nothing seems to happen much as you dig into the embankment but you do know once the breach is made things tend to accelerate in a hurry.

Your passion is to be admired but you fail to realize how corrupt both State and Federal Governments are and the extreme lengths they will go to stay in power.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have been told if any LEO anywhere runs my Tennessee Drivers License through the standard check, they get back my Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit status. Why would there be a need for a national registry?

 

[Sistema1927]

As any computer nerd and they will tell you NOTHING is ever truly deleted from computer files. Look at how investigators have recovered emails on the computers that HRH and her lackeys destroyed.

You do realize that 4473's don't go into any computer, don't you? NICS checks do not include serial numbers, or any description of the firearm in question. As I stated, there is NO database based off of 4473's.

 

[Blkhrt13]

That’s funny because the last two i filled out were done 100 percent on a computer.

 

[jdc1244]

Would Nationwide reciprocity add a database?

No.

Reciprocity has nothing to do with Federal regulatory oversight or a ‘database.’

It merely authorizes the states to recognize the permits of other states solely for the purpose of concealed carry in jurisdictions where carrying a concealed weapon would be otherwise unlawful, and only for persons traveling through a non-resident state or staying temporarily in a non-resident state where the permit holder has no intent of establishing residency.

Out of state permit holders would still be subject to non-resident states’ laws concerning the use of firearms in self-defense.

And new residents of a state would be required to obtain a new carry permit pursuant to the laws of that state.

 

[CoalTrain49]

There's a lot of information encrypted on a DL. Soon your status as a citizen or legal immigrant will be on all drivers licenses.

Your DL will be your CC permit, your passport and a lot of other things. It's now possible to re-enter the US (border crossing) with nothing more than you DL.

Where I live my vehicle license plate will show my CPL. State patrol doesn't have to run my DL for that info. I assume that information is available for any LEO in the country who runs my vehicle plates.

The state collects the information it needs and any LE agency has access to it. It's been that way for a long time.

I'm not sure why a national database is such a huge concern for people. The feds can't manage much of anything. NICS is a prime example of that.

The database that you envision exists already, the state just manages it and more than likely the info is on your DL or quickly linked to it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

CoalTrain49 #18: Currently that information is available on a need to know basis and used for regulatory purposes and may not be a concern. I have followed gun control as an issue since 1959 and read their arguments closely. The New York City style registration of rifles ($140 permit, $96 BG check) and pistol licensing is run by prohibitionists intent on restricting as much as possible. Virgina State Police booth at a gun show will run a NICS BG check for $5. Bloomberg/Everytown Univeral BG checks for private sales run $30 to $55. Tennessee state + federal NICS BG checks totals no more than $10. UBC is a sin tax aimed at used gun sales by individuals. What's reasonable regulation with a view to prevent crime is one thing; what's reasonable regulation to crusading uplifter prohibitionist types is not reasonable to me.

 

[CoalTrain49]

That’s funny because the last two i filled out were done 100 percent on a computer.

Bingo.

If the information goes into a computer it can go anywhere. It can go to an off shore server in a nano second. All we can do is accept the governments promise that the information is destroyed or it's secure and won't be used for illegal purposes. If you are the type of person that believes everything the fed tells you I don't want to wake you up.....but two presidents lied to us (Bush and Obama) about what the NSA was up to with Prism.

Just be aware that if you use a phone or a computer the data isn't as secure as you might think it is. That would be a mistake.

 

[GarySTL]

Just make concealed carry an endorsement to a drivers license or state ID card, similar to a motorcycle endorsement. No need to have a separate concealed carry card in your wallet.

Missouri was like this at first . Records kept by the Department of Revenue and marked on your DL. But the DoR shared data with the Feds, which made the legislators mad. So now our permits are issued by county Sheriffs and the DoR has no data to share. Missouri has had permit less carry for the last few years as well.

 

[Theohazard]

That’s funny because the last two i filled out were done 100 percent on a computer.

But that information isn’t sent anywhere. The information provided for the background check is separate and doesn’t include the specifics on the firearm.

So in order for the government to keep a record of 4473 transactions like you claim, they would have to hack into the FFL’s computer system and illegally steal that data. But what about the many FFLs that still use hand-written 4473s?

I’ve worked at three different FFLs in two different states, and I can tell you that there’s simply no way that the government is capable of illegally compiling even a partially-complete database of 4473 transactions considering the different ways that information is collected and stored at different FFLs. Not to mention how much manpower it would take to steal all that information.

if someone honestly believes the federal government is capable of stealing all the 4473 information from all the FFLs around the country and using it to compile a useful database without anyone ever finding out, they probably also think 9/11 was an inside job and that the moon landing was faked, so there’s probably no way I can convince them otherwise.

But I think most people aren’t crazy conspiracy theorists, they just don’t understand how FFLs operate. Once they learn more about it, they realize that the 4473 is not a registration mechanism.

 

[larryh1108]

I agree with everything you just said. The 4473 system, as set up now, cannot provide an accurate and reliable database today.
However, when an FFL dealer closes, all of the 4473s they have must be sent to the BATF for "storage". Now I suppose that all of these old 4473s are just sitting in boxes in some warehouse, collecting dust but would anyone be surprised if they were being scanned and "stored" somewhere?

 

[Mousegun]

Really?
He's been in office less than a year.He's had his hands full with North Korea, a new budget and a new tax plan. He's been trying to fill his staff with his own people, putting up with the Dems trying to impeach him for Russian collusion and he's trying to fix our broken health care system. I say that your "getting frustrated" with the GOP acting like a "bunch of cowards" is totally self serving and just plain out of line, IMO of course.

+1 it is just that simple

 

[FROGO207]

The feds are not concerned about what and how many firearms you have so much as that you have ANY firearm (s). And THAT is a list I wish not to be on. Alas being on this forum and others is an easy way for them to figure that out though.

Staying on the ball with legislation and landing on YOUR local representative when they start to do something you dont want is the best move to keep them honest. Especially in respect to RKBA/2A items. When enough of us make noise they fear for their future job.