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Would you accept the liability?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Eddy19, Dec 13, 2019.

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  1. Eddy19

    Eddy19 Member

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    About three months ago, a acquaintance called and has taken a interest in shooting so, wants me to go with him, which I do. Recently, he wants to learn reloading after seeing my bench. What's it's going to lead to is him wanting to reload all his brass here and clean his gun after every shoot, he's made hints that's what he wants to do. Told me he'd like to "bring all his stuff" here. He's bought some things like a hand priming tool, brass preparation set etc.

    I thought about this good and hard. I have problems with anyone else using my equipment, first is liability, I own this house free and clear. What if, somehow even in a freak incident, he gets injured, primer tube blows up, powder catches fire, anything. I know in these times, they'll run to a lawyer and I'll be in big trouble.

    Secondly, I'm in the process of getting the house ready to remodel, so if I'm not shooting, I'm working on the house, and cannot possibly sit by and hand hold him while he reloads and no way would I leave him alone to reload. He's not experienced at all in reloading, he's just a rank beginner that has to be shown every single thing, has no particular skill in dexterity and lacking analytical thinking.

    I told him, I'm very busy now and that he should work on getting his own press and all that's necessary. Says he has no room living in a apartment. He does have more than enough money.

    I'd like to nip this in the bud so to speak.

    What do you think? I'm I being unreasonable?
    Thanks!
     
  2. bihj

    bihj Member

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    If he really wants to reload he will find room in an apartment. I've done it in the past.
     
  3. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Don't think so politically correct. If you are uncomfortable with him using your basement stick with it. Being nice doesn't help, you will end up losing a friend. Just tell him no but nicely.

    Offer to help him set up something at his apt.

    Reality check, he claims not to have room in an apt. yet wants to use the space you provide for your family which you pay an additional cost to have. The State gives out wealfare, not friends.

    You are not being unreasonable and I have turned down several friends to use my equipment. All are still friends and shooting buddies.
     
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  4. iShoot17

    iShoot17 Member

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    There are a crazy amount of ideas on this forum for small, or portable, benches. If he really wants to reload, then getting all of his own equipment is in his best interest. You helping teach is one thing, but expectations of allowance to use your equipment is another - IMHO.

    I think you have to approach it reasonably and respectfully. Be honest and lay out your reasoning.

    I too have some buddies who “reload”. They buy a new rifle and dies, then leave the reloading dies at my house! I don’t mind but have hinted that if it continues to happen/grow, that they’ll need to buy their own equipment.
     
  5. Virginia Jim

    Virginia Jim Member

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    You say acquaintance, not friend, so I’d tell him just what you said in the above. No liability in being honest.
     
  6. Scionti95

    Scionti95 Member

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    No, I would not place myself in a litigious situation. Also, I don't lend ladders or power tools to neighbors or friends. I have witnessed to many friendships lost "being nice". Honesty works everytime.
     
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  7. frankmako

    frankmako Member

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    tell him what equipment he needs to buy. you don't need much space to setup a reloading area.
     
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  8. Eddy19

    Eddy19 Member

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    Sad that people create situations that can be uncomfortable. I'd never, ever, ask someone to use, borrow, their stuff. Like last time after a shoot and we're back in my basement, he says "can you clean my gun?" this really irked me!
     
  9. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    Well you need to let him know that.
    In the OP you referred to him as an "acquaintance" and not as a friend.

    I know some people are more comfortable than others about letting someone use equipment, but when he asked if I would clean his gun, that's an entirely different animal.
    I would have likely been so blunt he would have not wanted to come back anyway.
     
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  10. LaneP

    LaneP Member

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    I agree with the above comments that it's just not the correct thing to do to impose yourself on the good graces of someone else. I bet he's excited and thinks it's "no big deal" but as is implied, this is not crochet, there is the very real possibility of catastrophic personal injury or property damage. I would just explain that due to his inexperience it would require your full devotion to his efforts in the interest of safety and you are just too bogged down with other commitments to do so.
     
  11. Eddy19

    Eddy19 Member

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    One problem I have with letting someone using the reloading stuff is, it's like a personal space where I know exactly whats where, how the dies are set, everything. Once someone messes with it, I couldn't be sure anymore what he did, put the powder back in the wrong can etc.
     
  12. adcoch1

    adcoch1 Member

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    I have two friends and my brothers that I might help reload for/with. All my other buddies I would coach, but they need to buy there own stuff. It sounds to me like you have a feeling this guy is going to have some issues you don't want to be involved in, and that is completely fair. Explain to him the complexities and dangers, then tell him No thank you. Being honest makes you a better friend.
     
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  13. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I don't think there would be too much of a liability concern as that's why we have home owner's insurance, if it came to that. The "kicker" for me is "I have problems with anyone else using my equipment". As a lifelong machinist/mechanic I understand completely. Show him this; DSCN0285.JPG I used this set up for a couple years before I got a dedicated reloading area...
     
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  14. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

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    My work area is about like my side of the bed. Nobody is welcome in it.

    I'll help you for a little bit, in your own work area. I like my space and people that can't understand that annoy the hell out of me.
     
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  15. fotheringill

    fotheringill Member

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    I have been in this position and have flat out, but nicely, refused for the potential of putting myself into a "bingo" situation.

    What if he really screws up and hurts himself or someone in your house? You don't need the headache or left with the option of getting insurance at obscene rates from Lloyd's of London.

    The solution is posted above by poster mdi. If it is worth the price, buy one of them for your acquaintance for Christmas. They fold up into nothing by nothing and he can store it under his bed or in the corner of a closet. I actually wound up using one to mount a barrel vise on and swapped out a drop in barrel on it. I also use it for a Wilson trimmer and I rig it up with a couple of Irwin clamps to turn necks with an electric drill. BTW, I have a full dedicated loading room in the basement.
     
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  16. George P

    George P Member

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    This is the best way to help him out, keep him out of your house, and keep your friendship
     
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  17. reddog81

    reddog81 Member

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    A single stage press mounted to a stand along with a couple dies sets and tools don’t take up much space. Unless he's living in a closet there's enough room. Get him a copy of the Lyman reloading manual for Xmas or let him borrow one of your reloading manuals so he can become familiar with all the concepts, terminology, and tasks involved with reloading. If he can finish reading the manual I'd show him how to reload with the expectation he buys his own equipment to use going forward.
     
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  18. Jeff Flannery

    Jeff Flannery Member

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    It sounds like you've already talked yourself out of it, which is a very good idea!!
     
  19. lightman

    lightman Member

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    I wouldn't want to get into that. I don't mind helping a new guy to learn about reloading but I don't have the time to reload for others or to clean their guns. And I absolutely don't want anybody in my space unsupervised. How blunt or vague I would be in telling him would depend on how good of an "acquaintance" he actually is. My bench is not as neat as some of you guys keep yours but I know where things are. I know that the right powder has been put back in the correct can. I know that the correct shell holder is put back on the rack and not someplace else. You get the idea!!!
     
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  20. Eddy19

    Eddy19 Member

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    Thanks all for great replies and ideas, all noted and I have to play it by ear next time we go shoot. I'll tell him about the portable workstands and not taking much space. Evidently, he had someone in his neighborhood that he got to reload for him before he called me but he seemed a bit perturbed because "their not around much". Things that raised red flags for me was, I asked him what the reloads were, kind of powder and the weight, kind of bullet and weight he didn't know. I told him in reloading you have to know every small detail. Second flag was at the range when the ceasefire rang, I went to check and renew the target, he sat back on the bench, I told him he should check how he shot and how to improve. These things told me he doesn't have quite the mindset to do detailed and careful things like reloading. Maybe he'll catch on with a little time, but I'm NOT going to clean his gun or reload his stuff. Like lightman says, just don't have the time to reload for others.
     
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  21. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

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    I see it this way. If you have to ask a forum these basic question then your answer should be a resounding NO. Your thoughts and words already show your reluctance so why put yourself in a spot to second guess or question your thinking. Sometimes we all have to do things that make us uncomfortable but this situation isn't one of them.

    Just respectfully decline to allow this, if you feel a need to explain be polite and keep it simple. That's all there is to it. I f he gets upset and moves on because of it then he wasn't much of a friend.
     
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  22. fotheringill

    fotheringill Member

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    Eddy-

    Good decision. The last thing you need is a non detail guy loading in your basement in an elephant gun caliber, one ignites and puts a quarter sized hole through your ceiling, the ceiling above that and your roof as well as other people above him. People do stupid **** if they are not careful and this guy don't sound real careful. When I hand load or go to the range, I want to finish the activity with the same number of holes in my body as when I walked into the session.

    Just think how the examination before trial would go--- "Eddie told me to do it this way" or "Eddie's equipment was loose and not secured, but he told me not to worry". Those are the things big awards from juries are made of.
     
  23. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    1. I do all my brass cleaning outdoors. Everyone has the same size "outdoors", so there's no advantage in bringing all his case prep equipment to your home. But let him continue to bring his clean and ready to load brass on over.

    2. No one reloads all the time. I'd make it clear that he's welcome to join you with his components and brass... when you are also in the basement reloading. And at no other time. If you load on nights he can't make it, that's not your problem. If your loading is completely over in XX minutes and he's only finished half of his, that's not your problem. I like the ideas of friendship, sharing equipment and having time together, but as a guest he has to bow to your limitations. Eg. He can only do banking when the banks are open.

    3. If he's researching and setting his own loads, doing his own setup, keeping his own reloading notes, and building his own cartridges, I hardly see your liability. That's like saying Hertz is responsible because the driver and renter of their vehicle ran a light and hurt someone. No, the driver is responsible.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  24. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Christmas is coming up... Lee sells hand presses cheap enough... 2+2=7
     
  25. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    It's like when someone asks you to load ammo for them. My standard answer is I won't load for anyone, it's a hard set rule for me. I make almost no exceptions. Of course my sons are exceptions lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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