Would you feel undergunned carrying a snub nose .38 special?

[akodo]

now, I have never been in such a situation, but I have heard it said a lot, that any gunfight you get into, a handgun of any make or model means you are undergunned. If you need it, you will wish you had a FN-FAL or AK etc.

the entire concept of a handgun is you choose to go undergunned because it is too much hassle to go fully gunned (i.e. packing a rifle(

 

[461]

I'm thinking it's a pretty safe bet that well beyond 90 percent of encounters where a firearm is even needed that less than 5 rounds are required. Of those less than 10 percent of encounters left I'd venture to say that well beyond 90 percent of them could have been solved with less than 5 rounds if a bit of common sense were employed.

No, I would not feel undergunned with a snub .38 in either an armed citizen or plain clothed officer situation.

 

[Jody Johnson]

When I started in LE in the late 60's about the only thing carried concealed was a model 36 or, sometimes, the Detective Special.

You could put the Smith in a pocket, and, if you had a Bodyguard airweight, as I did at one time, you knew it wouldn't snag.

Got a really neat shrouded Agent in the mid-to-late 70's...it was really "carryable", fairly concealable and was a "six-shooter".

Two good friends were involved in off-duty shootings in those days...separate incidents, but both armed with Chief's Specials.

One took four rounds to down a speed freak, but the other did so with one round. neither felt under-gunned.

In hot weather, truth is, you can usually always find some place to pack a "J" frame. Then, you've at least got something there. And, well, a guy knows that little wheelgun is gonna work, if he needs it.

Nobody wants to fight with a handgun ( I hope ) when a suitable long gun is available, but, the small 38 is ALWAYS there, at least for me. I still pack one off duty and, sometimes under certain conditions, even on-duty.

 

[MuzzleBlast]

If I had no other choice, carrying a snubbie is better than going nekkid. If I did have a choice, there is no question I would NOT choose to carry a snubbie. There are too many superior choices.

 

[Doug.38PR]

Anyone else here read Ed Lovette's book The Snubbie? A very good book. A high supporter of the Revolver in the citizen market and even praises it as a LEO weapon (he notes that back in the late '70s he interviewed a large number of policemen involved in shootings and in these interviews not one officer ever suggested that he would have been served better with a semi automatic and only once did an officer have a need to reload and that was only for him to run back to his car and get his shotgun)

He even recalls and incident where a young rookie cop back in the '70s armed with a .357 magnum Ruger Security Six takes on a bunch of gangbangers singlehanded.....AND WINS. (In all fairness, the point of relating this story is to point out bad tactics on the part of the macho officer who stopped and engaged all these thugs instead of withdrawing and calling for backup)

 

[Panthera Tigris]

I do carry a 38 special snubnose. 2 inch S&W model 10.

And I'm very good with a revolver. I've been practicing with em for quite some time.

 

[fiVe]

Nope. The 642 is perfect for me.

 

[2ndamd]

As a former LEO I can say the 5 shot Ruger SP101 .357 is a great weapon and all I ever needed.

My uncle (retired LEO) was a detective on the vice and homicide squads for years and years, he carried nothing more than a 5 shot snub .38.

Ed Lovette has written a good deal about the effectiveness of the snub and he is retired Federal LEO, and carrys a S&W 640 (.357) and a S&W 642 (.38+P) as his BUG. Mr Lovette has a good book on the snubnose revolver. It's worht the read.

 

[isp2605]

When the rds are coming at you it does matter what you are carrying, any handgun feels small.
10/02/96. At the time I was commanding 2 drug task forces and a fugitive apprehension squad. My normal carry guns were a 645, a 649 as backup, and an 870. It was suppose to be a quiet evening. I was off duty. Nothing was happening and I didn't think I would be needing to carry all the hardware to just to grab some dinner. Only had a couple of guys out working and they were just running down some low level leads. So I left all the big guns at home, stuck the 649 in my pants, and off to dinner I went. Best laid plans as they say. Then my guys called that they had located the subject holed up in a hotel. The subject was a definite bad actor. Always carried multiple guns, told everyone he'd never be taken alive, threatened to kill any cops who tried to arrest him, and he imagined himself to be a wannabee mafia and survivalist. Grabbed our SWAT guys and went out to get him. When we hit the hotel door he opened up on us firing a TEC-9 in his left hand and a Colt .380 Mustang in his right. He fired as fast as he could work the triggers. In a matter of a couple of seconds he had fired 11 rds at us. Sounded like something fully auto. And there I was making entry armed only with my 649. At that time that 649 seemed like the smallest gun ever made. It's a great shooter, hits right where I point, but that night when the rds were incoming the little J frame just didn't seem big enough and sure looked small in my hand. Now that I'm retired I still carry that 649. I have full confidence that it will take care of any problem I might encounter. But when you have your head tucked down tight with rds coming in at you any gun feels pretty small.

 

[Doug.38PR]

Ed Lovette has written a good deal about the effectiveness of the snub and he is retired Federal LEO, and carrys a S&W 640 (.357) and a S&W 642 (.38+P) as his BUG.

In his book, I thought he said he typically carries a 2 inch S&W M-12 airweight.

 

[1557]

I would always choose something else,more power or more round count,if I knew trouble was coming. That means a long gun of some type.There are times,tho,when the snub really comes into it's own for carry.I prefer mine in 357 these days,but still own one mint nickel and dehorned Mod 37,and it does get ocassional carry when nothing else seems to work.Placement.

 

[The Real Wyatt]

I carry several different guns

from time to time, but the one I most often carry is a .38 Special +P snubbie loaded with 158gr LSWCHP ... the "FBI" load. I shoot this gun quite well and don't feel a bit undergunned, ever. At my age, comfort of carry and the sure and certain knowledge that I can hit what I point at more than makes up for any percieved "deficiency" in calibre.

 

[SoCalShooter]

.38spec will still put the hurt on ya and I would definetly not feel undergunned.

 

[10-Ring]

THe 38 is a fine carry gun - compact, reliable and easy to use...what more could you ask for?

 

[2ndamd]

Doug .38PR

Ed Lovette's book was written awhile ago. He recently wrote an article in Combat Handguns about the keys to successful CCW. He mentions that being retired he is now using the S&W 640 as primary and S&W 642 as a BUG.

I use 2 SP101s for over 6 years now. It was this article that caught my eye and lead me to look up his two books:
The Snubby Revolver
and
Defensive Living (co-authored with Dave Spaulding)

 

[Jim PHL]

90-95% of the time I am carrying it is my 342 in a pocket. (the rest of the time a 3" 1911 IWB)

 

[Brian Williams]

Nope...

 

[MR.G]

I have carried a five shot S&W J frame but prefer more rounds. My P-11 holds over twice the number of rounds and is about the same size and weight. Had four guys attempt a robbery/carjacking on me a few years ago. I was carrying a model 60 at the time. Situation ended in my favor, without any shots fired by either side, but since then I carry a gun with more rounds when possible. Home invasions have become popular lately with the gang bangers in my area. Seems that three is the average number of attackers. I own about a dozen J frames and like them better than the plastic guns, but if things get bad it is better to have rounds left over than to not have enough.

 

[JERRY]

"Would you feel undergunned carrying a snub nose .38 special"?


not if my opponent had a knife.

but i would if he had ANY gun.


to me, my J frames are for last ditch BUGs, acting soley as a secondary gun, never a primary.

i can carry a 39XX 9mm just about anywhere on my body easily even in the deep south's summer.

 

[LightningJoe]

The snub-nose has only one real weakness, in my opinion. It's the short sight base. Accuracy at 7 yards requires a lot of precision. Laser sights would presumably fix this. Also, engagements at close range would not be greatly affected.

 

[Bob79]

JERRY

JERRY-you would feel under-gunned if the other guy/girl had a NAA 22 mini, Kel Tec 380, any derringer, 6-7 shot compact 9mm, Walther 380/32, 6-shot K-frame, etc?

 

[cslinger]

practically heck no. I carry a 5 shot snub in either .38 or .357 quite frequently.

Now should I ever have the misfortune of being in a gunfight I would guess short of me being in an armored vehicle I would feel undergunned and scared poopless.

The reality is I feel perfectly comfortable with a 5 shot snub and a speedstrip and do not believe I would be at a technical/tool disadvantage in a fight.

Chris

 

[s&w 24]

the more talking thru this I've done not feeling O.K. with a j-frame is more a reflection on what works and doesn't for ME. My huge mitts don't work for those teeny wheeny guns and I never feel properly armed without one reload.

If you think you can get out of a hole with your j-frame great, good for you shoot the stuffing out of your gun and carry it every where you go. For me I'll stick with at minimum a K-frame of officers model sized gun.

 

[Johnboy53]

I carry a 637 all the time. If you place your shots right, that is all you need. With a auto with 15 rounds is a bigger chance of hurting someone on the side line.

 

[Stainz]

My 2" 10, made 1/03 and +P rated, shoots those Remington +P 158gr LSWCHP's quite well. It gets some carry - in an OWB pancake and sporting the boot-sized wood service grips. My 'pocket' carry piece for nearly four years is my 5-shot .44 Special Airweight (Al/Ti) 296, with one or two additional reloads in HKS speedloaders in the other front pocket (200gr GDHP's - either GA Arms or Blazers). That 2" 10 is a lot heavier, although my marksmanship with it is better. I certainly wouldn't feel 'under gunned' with it... but I am a civilian.

I read some years back that the average number of discharges of a civilian's CCW in a 'situation' is 1.2 rounds, making the question of 5, 6, 7, or 8 rounds somewhat superfluous. Additionally, a quick perusal of compiled data, as in Marshall and Sanow's 'One Shot Statistics', will reveal that the 158gr LHPSWC +P from a snubby has yielded a significantly higher 'OSS' than 230gr ball ammo from a 1911. I shot a friend's 642 along with my 296 yesterday - the even tinier boot grip on the J-frame was more uncomfortable than my 296's boots. I could do better - with more shooting of that 642 - but I have become 'accustomed' to my 296 and its use. Still, a 642 is an excellent CCW... and one may still be in my future.

Stainz

PS If I were to prepare for ALL situations, as some of the great defensive shooter experts/teachers suggest, I am afraid I would have to opt for something belt fed.