Would you obey this range command?
- Thread starter parsimonious_instead
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Cosmoline
Member
I'd obey all commands on the line, but they must be breeding a different group of RSO's these days because far too many give MUMBLY commands that are NOT CLEAR. Just yesterday the RSO was chatting into a microphone in a soft voice. I could barely hear anything he said with protection on, and it turns out he was calling for a cease fire!
I blame microphones. In the old days the range master had to bellow commands and couldn't chit chat. You have to respect the RSO for obvious reasons, but I'm often tempted to throw their mic down range and teach them to YELL properly.
I blame microphones. In the old days the range master had to bellow commands and couldn't chit chat. You have to respect the RSO for obvious reasons, but I'm often tempted to throw their mic down range and teach them to YELL properly.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I'd guess there are a lot more RO's that never ever served in the military then there used to be too.
Speaking in a command voice comes naturally when giving commands, if you were ever trained to give commands in the military.
rc
Speaking in a command voice comes naturally when giving commands, if you were ever trained to give commands in the military.
rc
Wish my range had a similar policy. I made a mistake on the pistol line the other day, and the range officer practically gave me a hug while explaining it to me. I didn't know the guy from Adam, and he felt comfortable enough to put an arm around me and a hand on my other shoulder in the 90 degree heat. I deserved the lecture, but I didn't want a hug from the RO.
Should I have said something to him about it? I don't like hugs from strange men, even on a cool day, and it just seemed inappropriate for him to hang on me while lecturing me.
I do not suffer fools...
I agree with you completely. A live fire range is no place to be casual or unprofessional. The range office must be direct and communicate clearly. This RSO is simply an idiot! He has no place in that position.
I agree with you completely. A live fire range is no place to be casual or unprofessional. The range office must be direct and communicate clearly. This RSO is simply an idiot! He has no place in that position.
I would throw in that if there is any ambiguity about what an RSO is saying, or whether the RSO was adressing one person or all, it is wise to clear things up before proceeding to sling lead downrange. No matter how ineffective the RSO, we might be missing an important part of the overall picture and the idjit RSO might just be onto something.
jcwit
member
I would say at the least he needs to go thru the NRA training course again.
beatledog7
Member
The OP's question was whether we would obey this range command. Trouble is, it's no command; it's more like Miss Winny chiding her Romper Room class.
In this case, though, the OP says that he sensed the RO was asking him to stop; therefore, he should have stopped and gotten clarification. At the range, any sense that you should stop means you should stop. The RO was wrong in his manner, but he was still the RO.
If anyone on the range sees something unsafe or for any reason needs a shooter--any shooter--to stop shooting, the standard command is "Cease Fire, Cease Fire!" It applies to everyone, without question or debate, no matter who calls it. Only the RO can make the next call once a Cease Fire is called.
The right way to have the OP stop shooting his pistol on the rifle range would have been to wait for a normal-course-of-business cease fire or to call one.
A range officer who issues a non-standard "command" and expects it to be followed is not effective and therefore not safe. Still, a shooter is accountable to comply with the RO's instructions (unless compliance would be unsafe), even if that RO is ineffectual.
Clipper
Member
I agree, he's probably a crummy shot that couldn't hit with a handgun at 100 yards to save his life, and so he gets back by booting you off 'his' range. I have seen men at the range do this when some of the women I have taught to shoot outscore 'em. They get huffy and leave...
parsimonious_instead
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I appreciate everyone's input. I'm always looking to improve my shooting abilities, my safety and my overall range conduct. If I had the frame of mind that "I'm always 100% right and the world is automatically 100% wrong" I wouldn't have even posed this question on THR, and I certainly wouldn't have bothered asking ahead of time to let me shoot the Ruger target pistol on the rifle range.
Just to clarify, the order for me to stop wasn't delivered over the range PA system, simply spoken by this person, faced completely away from me, while he was still seated.
Part of the problem is that the two fellows running the firing line are so grumpy and unapproachable. Usually the way to get people like that to treat you a bit better is to be proactive and say, "hey, I need something clarified" or "hey, I need a bit of a favor" - it reassures them that you are a rule-follower and recognize their dominion over the range.
I considered asking the fellow to clarify his remark, but I was offended by the way he didn't even bother to face me while saying it, in addition to not even being sure it was directed at me. It was NOT a PA-system call for everyone to cease firing.
Unfortunately, he was so standoffish that he made me feel like I was bothering him when I asked him to clarify some other detail from earlier in the visit, so that was my main reason for simply letting him come to me to repeat the "command."
When he did, I put the gun down, cleared it and cleaned up, without any further comment.
Just to clarify, the order for me to stop wasn't delivered over the range PA system, simply spoken by this person, faced completely away from me, while he was still seated.
Part of the problem is that the two fellows running the firing line are so grumpy and unapproachable. Usually the way to get people like that to treat you a bit better is to be proactive and say, "hey, I need something clarified" or "hey, I need a bit of a favor" - it reassures them that you are a rule-follower and recognize their dominion over the range.
I considered asking the fellow to clarify his remark, but I was offended by the way he didn't even bother to face me while saying it, in addition to not even being sure it was directed at me. It was NOT a PA-system call for everyone to cease firing.
Unfortunately, he was so standoffish that he made me feel like I was bothering him when I asked him to clarify some other detail from earlier in the visit, so that was my main reason for simply letting him come to me to repeat the "command."
When he did, I put the gun down, cleared it and cleaned up, without any further comment.
Nushif
Member
and
would make me find another place to shoot. For good. There is no reason to support practices like that, unless it truly is the only place to shoot within any kind of reasonable distance. Maybe let us know where this is about so we can tell you some better places to shoot?
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
How old would you guess the RSO in questions was?
parsimonious_instead
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@nushif:
Thank goodness, my usual local range is closer, infinitely friendlier and much less expensive.
It's the polar opposite of the place I had this bad experience at, and every day I thank my lucky stars that it's there - even if I don't shoot I'll just stop by and hang out and chat with the guys.
The only bad part is the max distance is only 25 yards, and no centerfire rifleshooting - only because of noise issues with the neighbors.
The county facility with the dour staff has 100 and 200 yard paper targets and some hanging scrap steel in between - that's what I went after with a .22 bolt action and a .22 Ruger target pistol - with permission ahead of time.
Thank goodness, my usual local range is closer, infinitely friendlier and much less expensive.
It's the polar opposite of the place I had this bad experience at, and every day I thank my lucky stars that it's there - even if I don't shoot I'll just stop by and hang out and chat with the guys.
The only bad part is the max distance is only 25 yards, and no centerfire rifleshooting - only because of noise issues with the neighbors.
The county facility with the dour staff has 100 and 200 yard paper targets and some hanging scrap steel in between - that's what I went after with a .22 bolt action and a .22 Ruger target pistol - with permission ahead of time.
parsimonious_instead
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There were two very dour RSOs - an older fellow about 50 yrs old, and a much younger fellow - he was the one with more of an "attitude" issue - perhaps all of 25-27 yrs old.
I forgot to mention that a couple of times throughout my visit to that place, I felt eyes on my back, and turned around to see him just standing there, motionless, staring at me.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Here is your problem " young grim-faced guy" He is like some young LEO's I have delt with. He got a big head and ego cause he is the RO and he wanted to show you he could order you around. As a Sheriffs Dept Chap I try to get to the young ones ASAP before the Sheriff gets an earful from a Local Citizen.
I would call the owner and file a complaint and never go back.
I would call the owner and file a complaint and never go back.
Old judge creek
Member
I have nearly 30 years experience as a Range Officer and most of that time I was the Range Master.
From what has been posted I conclude there the real problem is the gent with the authority was at best completely unprofessional. As was posted, a live fire range is NO place for less than professional conduct and communication from the guys running the show. Ambiguity is a recipe for pure disaster, IMO.
There's a reason commands are standardized. And if for some reason they are not, its 100% incumbent for the Range Master to make sure every person on the line understands what that is.
As well, I have to say that I've seen many instances over the years where Range Officers of all ages really enjoyed the power trip. While there's no excuse for that (and they should be reported) the simple fact is until they can be re-educated, they're still BOSS.
From what has been posted I conclude there the real problem is the gent with the authority was at best completely unprofessional. As was posted, a live fire range is NO place for less than professional conduct and communication from the guys running the show. Ambiguity is a recipe for pure disaster, IMO.
There's a reason commands are standardized. And if for some reason they are not, its 100% incumbent for the Range Master to make sure every person on the line understands what that is.
As well, I have to say that I've seen many instances over the years where Range Officers of all ages really enjoyed the power trip. While there's no excuse for that (and they should be reported) the simple fact is until they can be re-educated, they're still BOSS.
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I'm glad I belong to a very cool range. The commands STOP and CEASE FIRE can be issued by anyone who sees an unsafe situation. Everyone stops and/or ceases firing. Right now.
We had a noob in a competition who drew his weapon for some reason back off of the firing area a couple of weeks ago. I heard STOP and was impressed with every ones reaction. Even the guy who was doing his stage stopped firing. Many of the members are RSOs and all sprang to their feet and looked for what was going on.
The noob was instructed to put the gun back in his holster. He did so and then was escorted to an unused firing pit to examine the gun to make sure it was still unloaded. He was DQ'ed and very sorry. But allowed to stay and see how the shoot works. Strict but forgiving. He has done well since then, safety-wise, and is greatly improving his scores.
I live in Prescott AZ. If you are ever in the area and have your gun with you, stop in for a while:
http://www.prescottactionshooters.org/
.
We had a noob in a competition who drew his weapon for some reason back off of the firing area a couple of weeks ago. I heard STOP and was impressed with every ones reaction. Even the guy who was doing his stage stopped firing. Many of the members are RSOs and all sprang to their feet and looked for what was going on.
The noob was instructed to put the gun back in his holster. He did so and then was escorted to an unused firing pit to examine the gun to make sure it was still unloaded. He was DQ'ed and very sorry. But allowed to stay and see how the shoot works. Strict but forgiving. He has done well since then, safety-wise, and is greatly improving his scores.
I live in Prescott AZ. If you are ever in the area and have your gun with you, stop in for a while:
http://www.prescottactionshooters.org/
.
A few years back I was at our local outdoors 100 yd range. It allows firing both rifle and pistol on the same station and I had brought both my CAR-15 and PPK/S. That time they had instituted a new rule that all empty guns had to have the bolt locked back. A range officer was hovering over everyone, obviously enjoying his power. When I finished the magazine in the CAR-15, I laid it down for a moment. Sure enough that guy was right on me in a flash, telling me that I had to lock the bolt on an empty gun. I replied,"that gun's not unloaded," and he jumped back like it was a snake. Then I picked it up and locked the bolt open. "Now it's unloaded," I said. He left me alone after that.
45_auto
Member
Get your gun fixed so it works like it's supposed to, and it'll lock that bolt back automatically for you when you finish the magazine.
Walking over to you and facing you the command should have been "cease fire."
Just edited to answer your question better. Yes I would have but it was poorly phrased and delivered. If the RSO really thought that you were doing something dangerous he should have commanded "Cease fire." to the range and then walked over to you and dealt with the problem.
Just edited to answer your question better. Yes I would have but it was poorly phrased and delivered. If the RSO really thought that you were doing something dangerous he should have commanded "Cease fire." to the range and then walked over to you and dealt with the problem.
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Sav .250
Member
Range is HOT or The Range is COLD> Only two commands that are official.
Plus, no "sighting-in" on the berm itself. For what ever reason. J s/n.
Plus, no "sighting-in" on the berm itself. For what ever reason. J s/n.
mljdeckard
Member
Range commands should be simple and unambiguous. I look at it this way. Once I got loaned out to translate for some Marines running a range in Africa. When you are talking about safety, you want everything to be as simple as possible. 1-2 syllables. There is a briefing before you start, where we translate the very simple range commands, and make sure that all the local leadership knows all of the commands as well. There can be no confusion about your intent when you give commands that are going to have to go through at least one layer of translation.
When you are running a range, you are talking to people who are wearing hearing protection, may or may not be native english speakers, and are concentrating on doing a medium-high risk activity, ann they don't reserve a lot of RAM for people yelling unexpected commands at them. There should never be any confusion about who they are talking to or what they are saying.
When you are running a range, you are talking to people who are wearing hearing protection, may or may not be native english speakers, and are concentrating on doing a medium-high risk activity, ann they don't reserve a lot of RAM for people yelling unexpected commands at them. There should never be any confusion about who they are talking to or what they are saying.
jcwit
member
A thought has occured to me, especially in regards to the younger RSO's. In this age where all the youngsters are brought up in a world where there are no loosers and even test scores are graded without red and blue pencils is it any wonder when getting slightly older and given a little power they go off on a power trip.
I may be way off base in my thinking, but its a possiblity, NO?
Now for the older RSO's, and being as I'm older, I have no excuse for them.
I may be way off base in my thinking, but its a possiblity, NO?
Now for the older RSO's, and being as I'm older, I have no excuse for them.
ZCORR Jay
Member
Sounds like if they wanted you to stop they should have said so during the cease fire. I guess you could have stopped and asked him if he was talking to you but honestly if he wasn't facing me I probably would have done the same exact thing as the OP.
I don't really see the issue with having a pistol on a rifle range especially when it's being handled in a safe manor.
I don't really see the issue with having a pistol on a rifle range especially when it's being handled in a safe manor.
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