Would you open carry a BP revolver?

[Billy Shears]

If nothing else was available heck yeah, the gun you have is better than the one you dont when you need it

If nothing else were available, sure. A cap and ball revolver would be better than no gun at all if one were under attack. But let's be realistic here; for how many of us would no other gun be available? And if open carry with a modern firearm is illegal in your area, you may reason that a BP gun will be fine, since it's in a different legal class. Let me tell you, being a cop, I know that most other cops are regrettably unfamiliar with such details of the law. They shouldn't be, but they are. They will see you as someone carrying "a gun," and you are likely to find yourself arrested and charged with carrying a firearm, even if you can beat it later in court because technically, it's not a firearm according to the BATF, and your local state and city legal statutes don't include restrictions on it. It's quite likely that all that would only be cleared up after your arrest.

The one realistic exception might be for someone who can't own a firearm, for whatever reason, and wants to keep a BP arm for self defense in the home. But even there... Well, let's put it this way: Wild Bill Hickok continued to favor his Colt Navy .36s, even after cartridge revolvers were available (and he appears to have been the exception rather than the rule), but he also had the habit of shooting them empty every morning, and then cleaning and reloading them. He did that to ensure that the loads were fresh, with no damp in the chambers that would cause a misfire. That was a much, much greater danger with loose powder and ball in the chambers than it is with a self-contained metallic cartridge. If you opt to use a cap and ball revolver, are you able to maintain yours so rigorously? If not, you may be better off with another sort of weapon. The longer you let it sit, the more likely it is to go "click" instead of "boom" when you need it (or maybe "pop" when the cap explodes, but doesn't ignite the powder charge).

And anyway, I say again, how many of us really have no modern gun available for carry and/or self defense? Not many, I'd warrant. If you do have one, frankly, it's rather foolish deliberately to choose a less efficient, less reliable firearm with which to defend one's very life.

 

[Voodoochile]

I do on the Hunt Club property on a normal basis, why not.

 

[BlackPowderSmoke]

Black powder guns don't get the respect they deserve. They get blamed when their owners don't know what the hell they are doing.

A few of the guys here and on the black powder defense thread have mentioned black Powder reliability in a negative light. Perhaps they should take a look at their skill, proficiency and knowledge before blaming the guns and the obsolete technology. The guns are not modern, but they work just as good today as when they were introduced 150 years ago. and if yours don't, the gun you do not know how to properly load and care for is blameless. It's your own fault.

I acknowledge that black powder has limitations when it comes to reloading and cleaning, but that is all. If one is not proficient with their weapons they have no business using them for defense weapons. Black Powder Revolvers for Defense

I personally feel that if a person is having misfires, then he or she should take a look at their skill at maintaining and loading the weapon, their personal knowledge and skill instead of blaming these fine weapons of old.

I use my Uberti 1858 New Army 44's for defense. I take extra care in loading and maintaining them so I have a high degree of confidence in their reliability. Simply put, they don't misfire. They did at first, as I was learning what I needed to know to achieve confidence and proficiency. My beginner's headaches were improper fitted hands and improperly adjusted mainsprings. After I moved past those problems, I had success with my revolvers.

I even go as far as dropping my revs into a bucket of water and after 20 minutes remove it and fire of all six shots without a misfire. I know the revolvers will fire properly, I never doubt it. No misfires yet.

In order to keep the summer humidity from fouling the powder charge, I had take extra precautions. I don't pinch over sized caps onto the nipples. The caps fit properly and are sealed with clear fingernail polish and the balls are sealed with a thin layer of Crisco, not gooped. I use a Q-tip to apply just enough Crisco to form a seal between the ball and chamber walls. After 20 minutes under water they will fire. After six months of sweltering humidity, they will fire.

If there is a uniform ring shaved around the ball of each cylinder chamber and the caps are snuggly fitted onto the nipples, added precautions such as mine can be considered as overkill. It is just that if I am going to err, I prefer to err on the safe side.

If anyone here is so sure that a black powder firearm is such a timid, toy gun or questions its reliability, try standing in front of one of my Remmies after I remove one from a bucket of water and squeeze the trigger. Or for that matter, stand in front anyone else's obsolete toy guns that is proficient and skilled at caring for and loading their obsolete weapons. In your final moments, you may have a change of conviction............

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Hell yeah I'd carry, have carried, and still do carry a C&B Rev for personal or home protection. I know my Revs and how to use them ... tested a rev loaded for a year and a half with only the Shaved ball pressed on top of 30gr of fffg Black Powder and proper fitting caps, they all went bang no glitches.
I also wanna mention that factory original conversions and for the new replicas Kirst or Howell Conversion originals are still Black Powder Revs no matter how you look at it...so what's wrong with a BP Rev that one does not concider a toy?
The M1911A1 is one of my favored handguns so is a Browning High Power, and a Sig Sauer .45ACP, but they are still automatic and quite capable of jamming do to conditions or ammo or a defective shooter...same same as the BP Revs I guess, onlly Revolvers don't usually jam if in proper working condition...RIGHT?
:banghead:

Hell yeah I'll carry a BP Rev ...

 

[Busyhands94]

Black Powder Smoke you are right. if you take care of your firearm, load it with quality powder, balls, and caps, and put grease over the cylinders and even seal the caps it will go bang when you want it to. i own a cap and ball derringer that has literally NEVER had a misfire on the gun's part. never. the only 2 were due to poor quality caps. i have put at least 1000 shots through it and she always goes bang when i pull the trigger. now if i could get a revolver that reliable i would love it! i am actually planning on getting a Remington new army unfinished pistol kit and building it with my father, it will not only get him to stop working for a while but the end result will be something we can say that we built together. so here's the kit http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_162_194&products_id=3535

 

[Smokin_Gun]

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

I like yur Reply ... but more over I like what you say in yur signature ... authenicated by Sigmund Freud

 

[Billy Shears]

If anyone here is so sure that a black powder firearm is such a timid, toy gun or questions its reliability, try standing in front of one of my Remmies after I remove one from a bucket of water and squeeze the trigger. Or for that matter, stand in front anyone else's obsolete toy guns that is proficient and skilled at caring for and loading their obsolete weapons. In your final moments, you may have a change of conviction............

Don't be absurd. I wouldn't stand in front of anyone shooting a reproduction brown bess or a medieval longbow either. That doesn't make them the best choice for self defense! Pick something modern, that is easier to reload quickly if you need it. If you can shoot a BP gun well, and you've never had a misfire, good for you, but let me ask you, with your very LIFE on the line, why would you deliberately choose a less efficient, harder to maintain, harder to shoot, slower to reload firearm, when you can carry a modern gun that carries just as well, shoots just as accurately, has faster recovery time between shots (not being a SA), and is much quicker to reload, if you need it.? What is the benefit in doing so? What is it that remotely compensates for the increased level of difficulty, and makes it worth increasing the risk to your life over? I have to admit to never actually having become involved in a gunfight. But I am a cop, and have trained for it, and believe I understand the realities and the tactical considerations moderately well as a result, and my impression is that for any confrontation involving one's life, it's a good idea to stack the deck as much in one's favor as is humanly possible, not unnecessarily handicap yourself with less efficient, less user-friendly tools. That means using the best, most up to date equipment available. If all you've got is an obsolete weapon, well then make the most of it. Certainly the old guns are still deadly, and can be effective in skilled hands. But if you have any sort of choice, why wouldn't you choose the best tools available? This makes no sense to me.

 

[Hagen442]

Holy Black Carry

My First Choice Concealed & Open Carry is a AWA Sheriff's Model 45 Colt.
"Fast is fine but accuracy is everything" -- Wyatt Earp
Loaded with 6 Rounds of 30 Gr of FFF APP (Black Sub) & 200 Gr RNFP Bullets

My Barbeque/Wedding Pistols are always loaded with Holy Black


Hagen

 

[Billy Shears]

Black Powder Smoke you are right. if you take care of your firearm, load it with quality powder, balls, and caps, and put grease over the cylinders and even seal the caps it will go bang when you want it to. i own a cap and ball derringer that has literally NEVER had a misfire on the gun's part. never. the only 2 were due to poor quality caps. i have put at least 1000 shots through it and she always goes bang when i pull the trigger. now if i could get a revolver that reliable i would love it!

Why can't you? I've had no problem doing it. I own, or have owned an S&W Model 24, 25, 28, 29, and M1917, as well as a Colt Detective Special, M1917, and Trooper Mk.III, and all of them have had at least a thousand rounds through them, with no misfires. What modern revolvers are you shooting that won't manage this?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Open v Concealed. One of the economic arguments is that with concealed deterrents, like LoJack in a car, if the bad guy does not know who has the deterrent, for every person with the deterrent four or five people without it receive the benefit of the bad guy not being sure who has it. Open carry may deter an unarmed attacker; open carry may make you the first target of an armed attacker. Quite frankly there are no stats on that from real life shootings.

BP for SD. That said, I have open carried a BP revolver on family property for self defense when that was all I had to carry simply because it is easier to draw from an open holster than concealed. Rabid animals are not deterred by the thought of a concealed deterrent.

 

[MCgunner]

Wedding pistols? Now, there's a thought. I'm to be married Wednesday. Haven't talked to the church about wearing my weapons, though.....

 

[arcticap]

But if you have any sort of choice, why wouldn't you choose the best tools available? This makes no sense to me.

The poll isn't asking about which is always better but rather it asks about which is preferred for open carry occasionally.
Some folks really want to open carry cowboy style with a single action revolver on their hip.
It's the choice that some folks actually do daily and what other folks dream about doing and hope to do someday with their C&B's if given the chance.
There really isn't much of any difference between single action revolvers of any style.
Many folks here are comfortable and trust their C&B guns enough that they've voted accordingly.
And that's for a good reason because not only can C&B's be reliable but folks can be very proficient with them. Maybe even more so than with other guns.

 

[PRM]

Not opposed to carrying a C&B. I have and do on some outings/activities. Especially if I'm on the farm.

Open carry ~ I don't open carry any weapon in a public setting. I like concealed. Less attention, no advertisement. We do have the option of either carry (concealed or open) just my preference.

 

[One-Time]

lets look at this historically-

Are any of the hundreds of thousands of souls killed by BP firearms any less dead?

end of discussion

 

[NavyLCDR]

Purely speculative as I can't open carry in Texas and usually conceal an auto pistol for practical reasons. But, if I could open carry, I thought I might occasionally carry my 5.5" .51 Navy just because I can. Fresh loads, it always goes boom and with the proper cap size, I don't seem to have the cap in the hammer problem. Then, too, I have a flap style crossdraw for my ROA.

I carry my 1851 Navy revolver for special occasions such as re-enlistments and open carry meetings. Funny - I have a leather holster that I bought in Baghdad to carry my M-9 in while I was there. Really funny is that the snap for the safety strap has the seal of the State of Oklahoma on it! Anyway, I get home and find out my 1851 Navy fits almost perfectly in it!

So, sometimes I carry my 1851 Navy in the holster that I bought in Baghdad cross draw, just like it's supposed to be, because the revolver back then was the backup weapon to the sword which would be carried on the strong side.

I carry fully loaded with caps on all nipples and the hammer down on a safety peg between the chambers. After the special occasion, I've left the cylinders loaded for up to 6 months before shooting them and they are just as reliable after 6 months as if they were freshly loaded.

Wedding pistols? Now, there's a thought. I'm to be married Wednesday. Haven't talked to the church about wearing my weapons, though.....

I got married in the chapel on base... so no opportunity for the dress up gun then... :-(

 

[Cowboy2]

When bad things happen (and the need to use a gun for self-defense certainly qualifies), they tend to happen in bunches. No one is going to call you that morning and let you know today is the day. Will a cap and ball kill? Beyond any doubt. Are they generally reliable in even a novice's hands? Yeah. But like I said, troubles love company, and bad guys don't often advertise their intentions. If I get knocked down hard in a struggle, I don't want to have to worried about unseated caps. If me or the gun gets knocked into a puddle or have a drink thrown on us, I don't want to have to worry about wet powder or dead caps. And if you ever have a chainfire, what do you suppose the odds are that it'll be the one time your life is at stake? Again, when things start happening, they tend to come in heaps.

Me? Like I said earlier, if things ever come to a shooting, I'm not looking for handicaps.

 

[MCgunner]

One thing I failed to mention, when I IWB, I also have a strong side service caliber weapon (usually .38 or 9x19) in a pocket and a mini revolver weak side. If I were to strap on the BP open carry, I'd still have that 9x19 in my pocket. Of course, with a need to shoot, I'd draw the Navy, fastest to get at, but if I needed a reload, I'd have a modern NY reload on me that'd be quite quick. I don't forsee the need for reloading in most any SD scenario, but heck, you can't predict what will happen when the poop hits the propeller.

NavyLT, I'm in Corpus. I've been watching the Navy fly boys play over the house all day in FA18s. Man, they're putting on a show! I had to work outside just to watch. They look like less than 1000 feet off the deck movin' 400 mph at least and tossin' those things around. WOW. Ain't quite figured out why they'd be over the city like that, but it sure makes for a good show. I see the newbs in their prop trainers all the time, but this is a special treat.

 

[BlackPowderSmoke]

If I get knocked down hard in a struggle, I don't want to have to worried about unseated caps.

Make sure they are firmly seated. If still concerned, seal the caps to the nipple with bore butter or clear finger nail polish.

If me or the gun gets knocked into a puddle or have a drink thrown on us, I don't want to have to worry about wet powder or dead caps.

Once again make sure the caps are secured to the nipples.
Be sure you have a uniformly shaved ball. If not or if concerned, seal the edges of the ball and the chamber in the wall with something, bore butter, or some kind of lube.

And if you ever have a chainfire, what do you suppose the odds are that it'll be the one time your life is at stake?

If you have both ends sealed, there is no chance of a chainfire.

 

[Billy Shears]

lets look at this historically-

Are any of the hundreds of thousands of souls killed by BP firearms any less dead?

end of discussion

Not even remotely.

Are any of the millions of souls killed by swords any less dead? No. Would you choose a sword as a defensive weapon today? Didn't think so. Is Goliath less dead for being killed with a sling stone instead of a modern handgun bullet? No. Would you choose a sling for self defense? Didn't think so.

So much for that line of argument.

Let's not be absurdly simplistic. Are black powder weapons deadly? Beyond doubt. A .36 caliber round ball through your heart will kill you every bit as dead today as it would have in 1861. That's not even at issue. What is at issue is are you better armed with a five-shot, slow-firing, even slower-reloading revolver (basically it won't be reloaded in a firefight at all -- if it runs empty, you now have a short club, not a gun), that fires non-expanding, round lead projectiles; or a modern DA revolver or autoloader, that can be shot more rapidly, reloaded orders of magnitude more rapidly, and which fires much more effective, modern hollowpoint ammo. If you're answer to that is yes, how do you justifify it? If your answer is a more realistic no, then the second question is, with your life at stake or the lives of your loved ones, why would you deliberately choose the less effective weapon for self defense?

 

[BlackPowderSmoke]

So what percentage of encounters go past the point of reloading? How many of those circumstances will allow you time to reload a centerfire revolver? Especially when the heat is one and you are in a hyped up state of mind and having to get the bullets into your hand and into the gun?

 

[PRM]

Interesting Poll.

On a black powder forum where most individuals posting are familiar with C&B revolvers, shoot them, and know their limitations ~ 71% said yes to carrying them.

I been on some of the other forums where posts are flamed just for mentioning single action.

Guess it comes down to personal preference and experience. Seems those who shoot them are the most favorable to them.

As far as choosing a less effective weapon ~ we all do that each time we leave our rifles at home and choose to carry a sidearm.

 

[Billy Shears]

So what percentage of encounters go past the point of reloading? How many of those circumstances will allow you time to reload a centerfire revolver?

What's the percentage of CCW holders who ever have to draw their gun to defend themselves at all? Does that mean we shouldn't carry a gun?

Look, it's a choice, and you can carry what you want. But what I'm scratching my head over -- truly -- is why you would deliberately choose a handgun that offers no advantages over a modern handgun -- not of concealment, not of shootability, not of accuracy, not of reliability, not of ergonomics, not of firepower, not of stopping power, not of anything -- when you can, just as easily, carry a modern gun in it's place.

Self defense, it seems to me, is a time to be serious, and not to engage in gunfighter fantasies or other flights of fancy, or to base a decision on what would be cool or fun stylish or just different from the herd. It's a time to take a deadly serious look at the most likely threats, and choose the best weapons available with which to confront them, if necessary. I just don't see how a BP gun could, even remotely, be considered the best self defense weapon for any conceivable threat today.

 

[BlackPowderSmoke]

Yep, it is a choice. Black powder ain't about being cool or gunfighter fantasies. It is the choice for some of us for whatever reason. BP is economical and the guns (at least the Remmies) are simple to maintain and get the best out of. The guns are cheaper and come with no red tape. and they can be just as reliable as a modern firearm and fire power is not an issue as they are just as potent as their modern counterparts.

As for concealment, a 44 calibre chopped belly gun will do nicely or a pocket Remmy or Colt.

 

[MCgunner]

I have a .31 pocket Remmy, but it's pretty weak. It puts out, energy wise, about what a .22LR high speed will put out, bit more diameter of course. But, I wouldn't wanna get shot with it. I've never carried it, though. I HAVE carried my Super Companion NAA in folding grip and it shoots quite well. I have a spare cylinder for it for a quick reload. I prefer a larger revolver, though, and my Black Widow .22 mag is a good bit more accurate beyond 10 yards.

I bought a 7" barrel for my 5.5" Navy. Now, I was going to make a snubby, but the danged barrel turned out to be pretty accurate and i kinda lost interest in cutting it down. The 5.5" is pretty compact, though, carried IWB. Still, I prefer my 3" Taurus 66 .357 magnum, more convenient if nothing else. I really haven't been tempted to carry any other BP concealed other than my Super Companion, but hey, I won't disparage other folks for doing so. I'm just lazy and live in a city where I can't go out back ans shoot 'em dry now and then, at least for the time being.

 

[Billy Shears]

Yep, it is a choice. Black powder ain't about being cool or gunfighter fantasies. It is the choice for some of us for whatever reason. BP is economical and the guns (at least the Remmies) are simple to maintain and get the best out of. The guns are cheaper and come with no red tape. and they can be just as reliable as a modern firearm and fire power is not an issue as they are just as potent as their modern counterparts.

Sorry, but I cannot agree with that statement. Determining stopping power is far from an exact science, and debate rages to this day, but most authorities, from what I have read, put the "stopping power" of the cap and ball .44s close to the old .38 special round nose lead bullet. Velocity from an 1858 Remington, depending on the weight of the bullet, and of the powder charge, will vary, but generally comes in south of 1000fps, IIRC. A quick google search turns up an article wherein an 1860 Colt replica was fired, with a 148 grain round ball, over 35 grains of powder, and coming out of an 8in bbl at 820fps. Sorry, but you're simply not going to convince me that that is as potent as, say, a 230 grain .45ACP hydra shok, moving a bit faster, at 850fps, and which, moreover, will penetrate just as deep and expand to something close to .70 caliber once it enters the body, something the ball from a BP revolver won't do.

As for concealment, a 44 calibre chopped belly gun will do nicely or a pocket Remmy or Colt.

And out of a short barrel, you'll lose even more of your already less than impressive velocity.

Dude, seriously, you're better off carrying a modern revolver, with one extra round in the chamber, since you can carry it fully loaded, firing a heavier bullet, at greater velocity, and with expansion to make it at least a bit more effective.

"Just as potent?" Sorry, I don't think so.