Would you trust your life to a .380?
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Since the 70's, I've carried either a (German) Walther PP or a Remington 51. Both are finely made, exceptionally reliable pistols that I can shoot quite well. The ease of carry, particularly pocket carry, is my primary criteria. I am always more comfortable knowing I can discreetly put my hand on the weapon inside a pocket rather than having to draw from the belt. So the .380 fit the need. While I have a J frame .38, I am just not as comfortable with it, nor as skilled in its use.
These days I am experimenting around with 9 mm's of similar size/weight. I wasn't sure that the polymers were here to stay and would ultimately prove themselves out.
These days I am experimenting around with 9 mm's of similar size/weight. I wasn't sure that the polymers were here to stay and would ultimately prove themselves out.
Shade00
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My favorite gun is my PPK/S with Corbon Powr'ball. I think the .380 is perfectly adequate. I practice with my PPK/S and feel comfortable that I could put as many of my 7 shots into the kill zone as necessary. Would I feel better with 9mm? Well... I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. I'd love to have a shotgun or an AR, but I'm limited by size. One day I might get a Kahr 9mm, but until, .380 will do.
choochboost
Member
Yes, with FMJ.
Eightball
Member
Planning on picking up a .380 for discreet carry, so to answer your question--I plan to.
When I was looking for a pocketable pistol to complement my ordinary full size carry (a .40) I asked myself that same question....
I tried several guns in my pockets and, eventually, I got a Kel-Tec P-11 9 mm.
Sure some of the mini .380s are a bit smaller but my P-11 fits very well already with my clothing style....I do not plan to go around in a speedo anyway
So I asked myself: Why I should go below the 9 mm power level for the same "concelability" factor and basically the same price?? And I can carry 12+1 in my P-11
I wish they still made the P-40 (retired because frequent malfunctions) so I would not need different ammo from my full size carry
Sure I could have get a Kahr in .40 but I didn't want to spend $600+ for a pocket backup polymer gun.
Some people like the .45 pocketable Kahrs, but IMHO they kick and bark too much and, if I have to limit myself to 5 shots, I would rather get a snubnose .357 small revolver in my pocket for total unquestioned reliability.
I tried several guns in my pockets and, eventually, I got a Kel-Tec P-11 9 mm.
Sure some of the mini .380s are a bit smaller but my P-11 fits very well already with my clothing style....I do not plan to go around in a speedo anyway
So I asked myself: Why I should go below the 9 mm power level for the same "concelability" factor and basically the same price?? And I can carry 12+1 in my P-11
I wish they still made the P-40 (retired because frequent malfunctions) so I would not need different ammo from my full size carry
Sure I could have get a Kahr in .40 but I didn't want to spend $600+ for a pocket backup polymer gun.
Some people like the .45 pocketable Kahrs, but IMHO they kick and bark too much and, if I have to limit myself to 5 shots, I would rather get a snubnose .357 small revolver in my pocket for total unquestioned reliability.
9mm Versus .380 ACP For Self-Defense
By Dick Metcalf, Technical Editor, Shooting Times.
"If your personal-defense handgun is going to be a small autoloader, and you are buying it because the chance exists that it may someday have to save your life, the choice between a .380 or a 9mm is still a no-brainer. Get a 9mm."
Entire article and test results at:
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm
By Dick Metcalf, Technical Editor, Shooting Times.
"If your personal-defense handgun is going to be a small autoloader, and you are buying it because the chance exists that it may someday have to save your life, the choice between a .380 or a 9mm is still a no-brainer. Get a 9mm."
Entire article and test results at:
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm
I doubt whether the .380 is going to go obsolete just because of what one gun writer says. The fact is, there are some people who don't shoot a 9mm comfortably due to disability, physical limitations, or just plain flinching. The .380 just may be the better choice for these people.
And the fact remains that the .380 has proven itself to be an effective self-defense cartridge. It's not an ICBM but it works for its purpose.
Your statement is false.
The .380 was phased out several decades ago as a duty weapon. Even in the "old days", the cartridge never saw much use in the U.S.
There's probably not a unit or agency on either continent that currently issues the .380 as a primary carry sidearm.
The Euros upgraded to the 9mm long ago, and in the U.S. even the 9mm is being phased out in favor of the more powerful .40 S&W.
The .380 is NOT an effective self-defense cartridge. Never was, never will be.
It is, somewhat, true.
I'm originally from Europe (Italy) where the Beretta 34 in .380 (9 mm corto in Italian) was the standard Police and Armed Forces sidearm till the end of the 70's and, in some cases, very beginning of the 80's.
The pistol was often bad mouthed because of its marginal stopping power....it had several good aspects, reliability, accuracy, easy maintenance, relative small size which was good for concealement for plainclothing police work.....but its nickname was "peashooter" for a reason..
And not all major European armed forces used .380 pistols anyway.
XDKingslayer
member
Can I shoot you with one to prove your point?
Fish828
Member
I do. And my carry weapon is proof of that. Plus, the blowback design give you a little better accuracy coming from a small carry pistol.
fletcher
Member
The conclusion isn't that great. It's a big "duh" that in the same size package, take 9mm over .380. However, as affordable 9mm pocket pistols comparable in size to the P3AT, LCP, P32, and so forth are not available, .380 will continue to have a place. This article completely skipped over .380's niche, and just compared medium-frame/subcompact pistols, which do have readily available and inexpensive offerings in 9mm.
Just to compare their test pistol, the PT111, in size to the P3AT:
PT111:
Length: 6.125"
Width: 1.125"
Height: 5.125"
P3AT:
Length : 5.2"
Width : .77"
Height : 3.5"
That's a pretty big difference. I didn't choose my P32 because of the caliber, and I'm sure most people with .32s and .380s didn't either. They chose the platform, and took the best caliber available.
It is true, because of the blowback design, a .380 pistol can "shrink" a little bit more than a 9 mm....the fact is do you really need that extra "shrinkage" for conceability?? When you need anything smaller than a Kel-Tec PF-9??? (which you can buy for $250 or less, on par with the small quality .380 and .32 ACP out there)
As I said before, unless you plan to go around in a speedo
On top of that consider that the .380 ammo is more expensive, in general, than 9 mm....
Yesterday I was walking my dog around a lake with a pair of light shorts and a t-shirt with my P-11 in my pocket....no more "external print" than a cell phone...
fletcher
Member
Yes, I do. In a pocket holster, a P32 is the largest thing I can carry. Any larger will either look suspicious/absurd, or will be so large in the pocket that I won't have enough room to wrap my hand around it quickly for the draw. I have held/tried/fired a PF9, and it was too big. When I'm afforded the luxury of being able to carry a larger pistol, I go to 9x18 or 9mm. But for the purpose(s) I carry the P32, it's as large as I can go.
Even the PF9 is a good bit larger than the P3AT: 0.65" longer, 0.8" higher (the most critical dimension), 0.11" wider.
DawgFvr
Member
There is no doubt that the 9mm is a far superior to the .380. The OP's original question, however, was,
I, for one, have carried the P3AT in my pocket when I was unable to pocket carry my 642 or in situtations where I did not wish to carry a larger caliber IWB/OWB, e.g., sunday-go-to-meeting-suit, tuxedo, etc. If I did not trust my life to it...I wouldn't carry it...eh? One must always be prepared to back up a side arm with fists, blades or running shoes. Why? Because all side arms are extensions of your fist...all are poor human stoppers.
OBTW....the .380 makes lots of noise which can cover your retreat to a better weapon.
I, for one, have carried the P3AT in my pocket when I was unable to pocket carry my 642 or in situtations where I did not wish to carry a larger caliber IWB/OWB, e.g., sunday-go-to-meeting-suit, tuxedo, etc. If I did not trust my life to it...I wouldn't carry it...eh? One must always be prepared to back up a side arm with fists, blades or running shoes. Why? Because all side arms are extensions of your fist...all are poor human stoppers.
OBTW....the .380 makes lots of noise which can cover your retreat to a better weapon.
Anonymous Coward
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Whatever makes you "feel" protected.
The statements in my previous post are completely true, and I'm well aware that not all major European armed forces used the .380.
However, it saw significant use in law enforcement in a number of European countries, because the bureaucrats liked it for the "good" aspects you mentioned. However, the officers in the streets weren't impressed with it---giving it derogatory and very appropriate nicknames like "peashooter".
A good point, and very true. .380 ammo is noticeably more expensive. Somebody who wishes to use a puny .380 for self-defense would need to practice frequently with it. Thus in a relatively short time, the .380 would actually turn out to be the more expensive weapon. And if you shoot a lot, in the long run it would turn out to be considerably more expensive than a 9mm.
No, I absolutely would not trust my life to an anemic cartridge like the .380. I wouldn't even use one as a backup.
Solid upper torso hits from large caliber handgun cartridges like the .45 ACP are actually excellent "human stoppers". Certainly not 100% reliability, but not far from it.
Since rifles and shotguns cannot be concealed on your person, large caliber handguns in popular defensive cartridges like the .45 ACP, .40 S&W etc., are far and away the best thing available.
DougDubya
Member
Defensory, just let us fools who like the .380 die when our chosen caliber (or backup caliber) fails and quit beating the drum of "no caliber unless it starts with 4."
You've said your piece, the .380 is only good for getting yourself murdered. Move on.
You've said your piece, the .380 is only good for getting yourself murdered. Move on.
When you can get fired. When the option is carry the smallest gun possible or none at all, I'll choose the gun. Thanks. Like another poster said earlier, would you like to stand in front of me and let me shoot a .380 at you to prove your point?
If I'm going to be carrying a pistol the size of the PF-9, I might as well carry my .40. Then maybe I can deride you for your choice in the puny 9mm?
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