Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Crazy Coot, Feb 7, 2017.
Didn't read all 7 pages but do you trust your life with no firearm?
For home defense, I prefer a large 9mm gun or my 686. But for carrying in my low threat environment...a 380 is fine. Heck, a 22 LR isn't bad. Particularly if you have practiced with it the way 22 ammo costs allow and feel totally comfortable with it. But the small 380s are tough to beat for combining OK ballistics with small size and easy concealment.
Glock 26 in work clothes (khakis and polo shirts), Ruger LCP .380 in shorts and t-shirts.
NO, I carry a Glock 29--10mm.
In certain situations, yes. It's getting harder for me to justify given that my Shield isn't that much bigger than my Bodyguard, but there are times that small gun is the difference between being armed or not.
I believe that choice of caliber is less important that choice of size of gun, ability to conceal it, and ability to use it. At 6'1", 220#, I can easily conceal a 3.3" Springfield XDS with an AIWB or other IWB holster so I can carry a 9mm or .45ACP, which I would prefer to a slightly smaller .380. That said, the gun you have is much preferred to the gun at home in the safe if you cannot avoid its use by avoiding a fight, which is always my first choice.
Yep, lcp in a sticky holster. I can draw on target in 2.5 secs, nothing to snag on the gun.
Carry a spare mag in a small cellphone case. Light weight, easy to grab and go when leaving the house.
A .380 in your hand beats a 45 under your front seat, glove box, or wherever else you left your heavy pistol.
Well, I trusted my life to a .25 ACP pistol before, so yeah, a .380 would have been a definite step up.
Has anyone read the study done by Greg Ellifritz out of Ohio? He is a police firearms instructor, and thus has access to police reports. He analyzed over 1000 reports of shootings that documented the following:
- Was one or more shots fired?
- Did the outcome of the shooting result in the aggressor ceasing his aggressive behavior?
- What caliber was fired at the aggressor?
Note that he was not interested in if the aggressor died or if he screamed like a 12 year old girl and ran away. He didn't care if it took one, two, or whatever many shots. He didn't care if the aggressor was even hit. Only if he stopped.
When all was said and done, and much to his surprise, after analyzing the data according to the above criteria, you know which caliber scored highest in producing stops? The .380ACP! Furthermore can you guess what came in second? The .32ACP!
Google "Ellifritz Study" and see for yourself.
^^ I'll review that study at some point. I'd be interested in the context of each shooting incident. For instance, a street mugger fired at by a potential victim carrying even a .22 is more likely to cease and run than is a gang-banger who gets shot at while actively shooting at a rival himself. In these two scenarios, the former would be reported as "stop", but not the latter.
Now, if the study only included self-defense shootings committed by otherwise-law-abiding individuals, the second scenario wouldn't have been included.
I don't believe the .380 is the most effective cartridge available, but there are times when an LCP is the largest launcher I can comfortably conceal. In those circumstances, I certainly trust the .380. One of the first-run LCPs replaced the diminuative Kel-Tec P32 I was carrying previously. But situation and clothing permitting, I prefer to carry a .40S&W, a .357 mag, or a .44 special.
I trust my life with me.
A gun is a useful tool.
My LCP2 goes everywhere with me as a BUG to my G19 or G43, and often as my primary when I have to wear hot weather attire.
Not my first choice, but I would use any caliber available to me over throwing stones.
It does fine in that regard too, since a 380 ACP was used to start WWI
Yes. LCP extended magazine, Buffalo Bore hard cast + P 100 grain. Shot placement is everything as Jeff Cooper says but at close range a .380 is a hell of a lot better than a knuckle sandwich. I view .380 use in context of situations requiring a 'fighting retreat.'
Curious what ammo you have in mind? Tnx!
13.53" avg penetration 4 x denim
13.81" avg penetration in bare gel
Thank you. I may switch rom FMJ.
Surprisingly, some of the most consistent penetrating rounds in the Lucky Gunner tests are Remington's 88gr "High Terminal Performance" they are hollow-points and they don't expand at all !!
They're very closely grouped in the test, the bullets all wound up close to one another and they penetrated an average of 16.9 inches !
I guess the non-expanding hollow-point acts like a reverse parachute, creating drag and slowing down the bullet - I don't know, but very consistent and very good penetration from the Remington HTPs.
If you just look at that first comparison page, scan from top to bottom, the Remington HTPs are really pretty closely grouped together and they're all in the "Butter Zone"
When a question is asked in this nature I have a tendency to just shake my head. Let me just say in quote: " its not the wand, its the wisard". A 22 or a 25 auto will save your life when used properly. Guns are nothing more than hole makers , Its about where you put the hole and how many holes you make. Practice is more important.
The lucky inner tests are fascinating. I have not looked at them before. Lots of data on there.
I admit I haven't read all the replies in this thread. I have read enough to see the commonality with many others on this subject. Some are ok with it, and there are those who say "No" to the .380, and must have something larger. Those that say 'it's better than nothing", and those who plan to make multiple well placed hits with small less powerful bullets to stop the aggression. My only observation here, is that it's very unlikely that you'll be capable of multiple effective hits under the stress of a fight or flight situation. Get some good "force on force" training if you can. What you are capable of on the range, standing still without the stress of fighting for your life, is not a good measure of your ability to perform when it counts. Good luck to all, regardless of your choices.
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