Would you?

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I recently acquired a gorgeous Colt Python from my son, along with dies and a couple boxes of hand loads in .357, various powders from my son (he decided a DA revolver was not his cup of tea). While I taught him how to reload, I was not there when he reloaded these rounds, and I've always been taught one of the unwritten rules of reloading is:
1) Never reload for another, especially family or friends, and;
2) Never shoot anyone else's reloads
So the question is, do I shoot them up or start pulling bullets? Would you?
It’s your son! just shoot it, you taught the man to reload and he probably would not give you them if your he was not confident in them

Put it this way… if he didn’t give you the gun. You two were at the range (father + son) he said, “ Dad try this new Colt” loads you up a cylinder of his reloads… Would you shoot it?
 
It’s your son! just shoot it, you taught the man to reload and he probably would not give you them if your he was not confident in them

Put it this way… if he didn’t give you the gun. You two were at the range (father + son) he said, “ Dad try this new Colt” loads you up a cylinder of his reloads… Would you shoot it?
I already walked down that road when he bought it.:uhoh:
 
It’s your son! just shoot it, you taught the man to reload and he probably would not give you them if your he was not confident in them

Put it this way… if he didn’t give you the gun. You two were at the range (father + son) he said, “ Dad try this new Colt” loads you up a cylinder of his reloads… Would you shoot it?
Nope. Nor would he offer. But you weren't asking me:)
 
Sometimes you just have to look at things. Even the little things can make a big difference when nitroglycerin is in the equation. I know what’s going into the cases because of the way my process is ordered. I single load using components gathered together for just one session. I don’t have a fixed loading bench to scatter things on. I don’t use a powder dump or a mechanical trickler. I don’t prestage components in massive feed assemblies. It works for me. Other people do things differently and it works for them.

Since the OP taught his son and knows his process I think he - and only he - knows where the possibilities for error are and how much risk there is. This isn’t some random stranger at the range or a commercial reloading operation.
My thoughts exactly! OP you know your son and his normal mode of interacting in this world. He learned many things from you over the years. If he is a careful reloader and never has had problems in the past then go for it. If some dude walks up and hands you a box no way you should do it.
As far as some of the crimps being heavy, he probably didn't trim all the brass to the same length before reloading and some were a smidge longer. Just sayi'n
 
My thoughts exactly! OP you know your son and his normal mode of interacting in this world. He learned many things from you over the years. If he is a careful reloader and never has had problems in the past then go for it. If some dude walks up and hands you a box no way you should do it.
As far as some of the crimps being heavy, he probably didn't trim all the brass to the same length before reloading and some were a smidge longer. Just sayi'n
Having your son reload is an accomplishment on its own! That means he will keep all your stuff when your arm stop working!

Yes… I would shoot my sons reloads with pleasure. that’s mean I did my job! Would you let your son drive you on the highway??? same thing…Anyway, my boy is literally the worst soccer player in his team and they still gave him a trophy.
 
Having your son reload is an accomplishment on its own! That means he will keep all your stuff when your arm stop working!

Yes… I would shoot my sons reloads with pleasure. that’s mean I did my job! Would you let your son drive you on the highway??? same thing…Anyway, my boy is literally the worst soccer player in his team and they still gave him a trophy.
Wanted my sons to grow up to be men so no soccer allowed. But I'm east coast.
 
Don't know why I'm fixated on this topic, but I apologize if it offends anyone especially OP. Well that is I apologize but not to the point of quitting.

Did another THR search this time on "reloading mistakes." Again, like earlier search, 375 pages of results. So, that must be the limit for large result searches.

Anyway, do the same search and take a look at some of the mistakes folks are willing to disclose. Some are quite frightening. Others no big deal. But how & when do you know and what others aren't disclosed?

I keep this case on my bench as a reminder. Although I consider myself very careful, risk averse, fastidious even, this case reminds me above all else, I'm human. So is my son.

IMG_4988.jpeg
 
I would for sure shoot any ammo either of my sons have reloaded. Both are as responsible and as focused as I am when reloading. None of us push the envelope and are striving for the fastest ammo we can make, but are more concerned with accuracy and how comfortable the ammo is to shoot. My son's shoot my ammo as well as their kids. If they rust me, why should I not trust them? I am just as likely to blow a gun up with my own reloads as with theirs. While I truly understand the hesitation of shooting ammo from an unknown source, knowing where it comes from, is no different than the food I trust to eat. Reloading is not rocket science and as much as it is practiced, results in very few Ka-booms. Most all of the barrels/guns I have seen damaged over the years came from using factory ammo and having a barrel obstruction, and not by poor reloading practices.
 
Here is a flip side argument. My oldest kid is currently living overseas. While he is there, his current US residence is our place. His guns are currently stored here. I have reloaded ammo for both. Have shot said reloaded ammo for both with good success. When he comes back to visit, should he shoot my reloads or buy factory?

Edited to include...........what I don't do is load up large amounts of ammo for any weapon. Shotgun, rifle or pistol. And for the same reason folks discuss on this thread. In the event I'm no longer around to explain things, don't want to leave a large quantity of reloads for others to deal with. In the case of son's guns, only a box or two, and each of those is clearly labeled as to contents and components used. I prefer to keep all my potential ammo as components and load as I go.

Downside is in the event of a zombie apocalypse, I'll have to pray for a period of forbearance until I can whip out some ammo to administer the ever important double tap.
 
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I keep this case on my bench as a reminder.

I'm not trying to badger you, I'm just talking for the sake of conversation...

I've got a bunch of cases like that... in far more powerful cartridges than .45ACP. At the end of the day, I did everything right, and it was the components that failed. Again, it's the assumption of risk. I tend to learn from my mistakes... the mistake I made on some of those was trusting someone else to sell me a serviceable product, and because of that, I no longer buy 'once-fired, processed' brass from anyone. That, in and of itself, isn't a cure-all... I've had other load issues with brand new, out of the box factory ammos or components, too.

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As far as the OP's original question, it comes back to the level of risk he's willing to assume. Those reloads check a certain amount of boxes, but not all of them. If one of the unchecked boxes is a criteria the OP insists on, the answer is simple... don't shoot them. A small amount of research... popping a few cartridges apart, asking the loader, looking at the level of serviceability of the cartridges themselves... may check... or uncheck... even more boxes. Your checklist is different than mine, and ours are different than the OP's. 3 pages of comments don't change the fact that the responsibility and liability lie with the OP.
 
I'm not trying to badger you, I'm just talking for the sake of conversation...

I've got a bunch of cases like that... in far more powerful cartridges than .45ACP. At the end of the day, I did everything right, and it was the components that failed. Again, it's the assumption of risk. I tend to learn from my mistakes... the mistake I made on some of those was trusting someone else to sell me a serviceable product, and because of that, I no longer buy 'once-fired, processed' brass from anyone. That, in and of itself, isn't a cure-all... I've had other load issues with brand new, out of the box factory ammos or components, too.

cuagd3el.jpg


4Zhsj5Dl.jpg


5Ai2qEBl.jpg


MpcLFZfl.jpg


As far as the OP's original question, it comes back to the level of risk he's willing to assume. Those reloads check a certain amount of boxes, but not all of them. If one of the unchecked boxes is a criteria the OP insists on, the answer is simple... don't shoot them. A small amount of research... popping a few cartridges apart, asking the loader, looking at the level of serviceability of the cartridges themselves... may check... or uncheck... even more boxes. Your checklist is different than mine, and ours are different than the OP's. 3 pages of comments don't change the fact that the responsibility and liability lie with the OP.
Didn't think for a minute you'd badger me and I don't disagree with what you say. My checklist may be the shortest around--did I load it?
 
I'm not trying to badger you, I'm just talking for the sake of conversation...

I've got a bunch of cases like that... in far more powerful cartridges than .45ACP. At the end of the day, I did everything right, and it was the components that failed. Again, it's the assumption of risk. I tend to learn from my mistakes... the mistake I made on some of those was trusting someone else to sell me a serviceable product, and because of that, I no longer buy 'once-fired, processed' brass from anyone. That, in and of itself, isn't a cure-all... I've had other load issues with brand new, out of the box factory ammos or components, too.

cuagd3el.jpg


4Zhsj5Dl.jpg


5Ai2qEBl.jpg


MpcLFZfl.jpg


As far as the OP's original question, it comes back to the level of risk he's willing to assume. Those reloads check a certain amount of boxes, but not all of them. If one of the unchecked boxes is a criteria the OP insists on, the answer is simple... don't shoot them. A small amount of research... popping a few cartridges apart, asking the loader, looking at the level of serviceability of the cartridges themselves... may check... or uncheck... even more boxes. Your checklist is different than mine, and ours are different than the OP's. 3 pages of comments don't change the fact that the responsibility and liability lie with the OP.
Yes! Each time we pull the trigger we assume a certain level of risk. The same as every time we get in the car and proceed down the road. There always are risks. The trick is to minimize those risks to an exceptable level. I get all the ammo turned into the local PD to dispose of propperly. None are assumed to be safe or factory and I treat them all as to be stripped to component level and destroy the propellant due to unknown properties. Anything else would be extremely foolish to do.
 
This is my wife in our craveling loading bench hand polishing the necks of cases she is is reloading for a benchrest competition. I know of noone who is who is more exacting in her loading technique and knowhow. Which is why I prefer she do all our reloading while I clean our rifles. Same for my my sons who during their school years loaded the ammo for theirs and my highpower competitions. BTW, my wife is also a university professor and it has often been suggested she write articles, or a book, about the finer points of handloading. loadinglady 001.jpg
 
This is my wife in our craveling loading bench hand polishing the necks of cases she is is reloading for a benchrest competition. I know of noone who is who is more exacting in her loading technique and knowhow. Which is why I prefer she do all our reloading while I clean our rifles. Same for my my sons who during their school years loaded the ammo for theirs and my highpower competitions. BTW, my wife is also a university professor and it has often been suggested she write articles, or a book, about the finer points of handloading.View attachment 1244807
Awesome
 
Didn't think for a minute you'd badger me and I don't disagree with what you say.

Well... sometimes I dig in like a tick on something. I didn't want to sound argumentative. I'll take my medication...

Sometimes, instead of posting on a forum, one should just look in the mirror and pose the question to the fellow (or gal) on the other side.
 
- I guess you could ask him how he loaded them.

- pull a few and see what's inside.

- fire a few in a carbine - you should be able to tell what kind of pressures and speed powders they have by the brass/primers and sound of the rifle. Rifles are stronger than handguns and can take more abuse if any are too hot. With 357 brass it is going to be swollen just above the base if it is overpressure. If the brass is cheap it will be even at 35kpsi.

- You should know more about your sons abilities than anyone here so I would take that in consderation before doing anything.
 
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This is my wife in our craveling loading bench hand polishing the necks of cases she is is reloading for a benchrest competition. I know of noone who is who is more exacting in her loading technique and knowhow. Which is why I prefer she do all our reloading while I clean our rifles. Same for my my sons who during their school years loaded the ammo for theirs and my highpower competitions. BTW, my wife is also a university professor and it has often been suggested she write articles, or a book, about the finer points of handloading.View attachment 1244807
That’s outstanding!! Love it
 
Appreciate the answers and thoughts behind them!
After examining some of the reloads visually, I've found some with what I consider excessive roll crimp, which would transfer to higher pressures. Need to look at load data and see where his loads fall within the spectrum. At present I've decided NOT to shoot them until I have determined what sort of pressures we are looking at, and until I've pulled a number of them and weighed the powder charges. Most likely I will end up dumping the powder and starting over. "Trust, but verify", as the saying goes. I've been with him plenty of times when he is shooting his reloads, but everyone, including myself, is susceptible to making mistakes.
Just out of curiosity, have any of you had satisfactory results pulling bullets, resizing the case (without decapping) and loading without touching the primer?
Yep. I pull the decapping stem from the sizing die, actually a spare, and run the cases on my single stage. I could automate more but don't bother. I examine case mouths but am more concerned about damage to lead bullets. I work the burrs on any affected bullets with a small file. Should the powder be unknown, I pitch it.

My latest was a 50 round box of American Eagle 85 gr 327 Federal Magnum. The rounds were spitting at me when fired. Close examination showed more than half the cases were split (still in the box unfired), and they were not roll crimped. I pulled all the splits and saved the JSP .312 bullets. I am reluctant to shoot what's left or to roll crimp them, increasing pressure when fired.
 
I share the same sentiment as @Litetrigger - I know reloaders/hand loaders who can and do load to as high or higher standards than I, so shooting their loads is assuming no more risk than shooting my own.

Many folks do need to look themselves in the mirror on this topic; most folks don’t build their own cars or do their own mechanical inspection on airplanes when they fly for work or leisure, most folks aren’t harvesting or processing all of their own foods, or compounding their own medicines, purifying their own water or even validating its quality… most folks aren’t proof testing their firearms nor manufacturing their own… most folks put faith that elevator inspectors have done their job properly when they enter an elevator, and that architects and civil engineers have done their jobs properly when they drive over a bridge. I’ve never seen anyone inspect an ocean-faring cruise ship, let alone construct one of their own hands before being willing to embark… folks don’t blink twice when buying factory ammo… Folks put more faith in total strangers and high throughput automated processes for FAR higher risk opportunities every. single. day. than the menial task of reloading.

Folks also ignore that mistakes happen even when their own hands are operating the press, and failures can happen for any equipment or process - ESPECIALLY highly human-dependent, manual processes. Folks do like to pretend that they are infallible, or at minimum pretend that they accept culpability if Murphy strikes and their own reloads blow off their fingers, but for some reason, pretend that someone else, even someone they have trained, firsthand, is loading at substantially higher risk than their own ammo. Certainly, this isn’t the case - if two reloaders stand shoulder to shoulder over the same equipment with the same materials and follow the same processes, the same inherent risk evolves.

So if a father has any business reloading themselves, and has any business at all training other humans, then the ammunition by the trainee, the son, produced AFTER the initial training period, carries no more risk than that of the father.
 
I share the same sentiment as @Litetrigger - I know reloaders/hand loaders who can and do load to as high or higher standards than I, so shooting their loads is assuming no more risk than shooting my own.

Many folks do need to look themselves in the mirror on this topic; most folks don’t build their own cars or do their own mechanical inspection on airplanes when they fly for work or leisure, most folks aren’t harvesting or processing all of their own foods, or compounding their own medicines, purifying their own water or even validating its quality… most folks aren’t proof testing their firearms nor manufacturing their own… most folks put faith that elevator inspectors have done their job properly when they enter an elevator, and that architects and civil engineers have done their jobs properly when they drive over a bridge. I’ve never seen anyone inspect an ocean-faring cruise ship, let alone construct one of their own hands before being willing to embark… folks don’t blink twice when buying factory ammo… Folks put more faith in total strangers and high throughput automated processes for FAR higher risk opportunities every. single. day. than the menial task of reloading.

Folks also ignore that mistakes happen even when their own hands are operating the press, and failures can happen for any equipment or process - ESPECIALLY highly human-dependent, manual processes. Folks do like to pretend that they are infallible, or at minimum pretend that they accept culpability if Murphy strikes and their own reloads blow off their fingers, but for some reason, pretend that someone else, even someone they have trained, firsthand, is loading at substantially higher risk than their own ammo. Certainly, this isn’t the case - if two reloaders stand shoulder to shoulder over the same equipment with the same materials and follow the same processes, the same inherent risk evolves.

So if a father has any business reloading themselves, and has any business at all training other humans, then the ammunition by the trainee, the son, produced AFTER the initial training period, carries no more risk than that of the father.
I agree that a lot of people overestimate their own abilities and underestimate others, but if legal wasn't involved I'd carry my loads over factory. I also disagree that their is inherent trust in society, as there are many risks that have to be accepted to function. I do all my own car maintenance to make sure the oil, tires transmission fluid and the rest are correct. My house is crap and I fix the failures of the builder including breaking the foundation to put the toilet drain the correct distance from the wall. I trust very few things because very few things are trust worthy.
 
I also disagree that their is inherent trust in society, as there are many risks that have to be accepted to function. I do all my own car maintenance to make sure the oil, tires transmission fluid and the rest are correct.

Did you build the car? Did you do the dynamic modeling and destructive durability testing to confirm the design? Did you X-ray inspect every weld on the frame? Did you design the hydraulic system, pad surface area and materials, and rotor design to ensure your car has sufficient braking power to stop itself as expected?

Did you perform the wind and snow loading calculations for your home design? Did you manufacture your floor sheeting to know it can support the free span load over the life of your home as you walk through the house? Did you do the loading calcs to ensure your floor joist design will support the living space load - not just trusting code that your joists are spaced and of dimension required by code? Unless, of course, you were responsible for doing the calcs and writing the codes yourself - which in itself would be hypocritical, as then you’re expecting others to trust YOUR work when they haven’t been involved in deriving it.

Do you run ductility tests and dimensional inspections on the case web of all of the ammunition you buy? Did you run finite element analysis on the firearm design to ensure the chamber pressure will be contained?

Did you inspect the battery in your phone you carry in your pocket to ensure it was properly sealed and would not overheat and light itself on fire? Do you shut off the main breaker to your home to ensure all of the appliances you’ve purchased without a hand in inspection or involvement in assembly or design won’t short and catch fire while you’re gone?

Do you expect your wife to trust your work when you maintain your home and vehicles? Do you expect any subsequent owner to trust your work?

We make excuses that our trust is implied because we can’t actually do the work ourselves to prove the trust is warranted, but in reality, most folks put their lives in the hands of others many, many times per day, yourself included.
 
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Did you build the car? Did you do the dynamic modeling and destructive durability testing to confirm the design? Did you X-ray inspect every weld on the frame? Did you design the hydraulic system, pad surface area and materials, and rotor design to ensure your car has sufficient braking power to stop itself as expected?

Did you perform the wind and snow loading calculations for your home design?

Do you run ductility tests and dimensional inspections on the case web of all of the ammunition you buy? Did you run finite element analysis on the firearm design to ensure the chamber pressure will be contained?

We make excuses that our trust is implied because we can’t actually do the work ourselves to prove the trust is warranted, but in reality, most folks put their lives in the hands of others many, many times per day, yourself included.
As I said to function one must, but my experience has proven its not warranted. You must trust what you can't do, and I'm not an engineer so I can't do those things. But anyone who works on cars or motorcycles knows stupid stuff is done because they lack service experience
 
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