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WWI Gun Sale...HELP! 1917, Mauser,Mosin Nagant, Enfield

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by skipbo32, Mar 11, 2011.

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  1. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    i just need some quick and rough advise. here is a pic on some WWI guns that are being held in a silent auction (the shotgun is not WWI, yes). i was wanting advise on what amount to bid on them. they are all in good to very good condition. yes i know the pics arent much, but any general help would be great. i guess i would like a ball park figure for what these guns go for.

    [​IMG]

    starting with the 2nd from the top down im guess what i have listed here is:

    1917 enfield

    mosin nagant

    mkIII smle

    mauser 98 (spanish?)
     
  2. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    O and ps....i believe the picture has a misprint....being that the mosin nagant and the mauser are mis listed, in that they need to be name- swopped.
     
  3. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

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    I don't think you're going to get a clear answer because there are so many variations within those individual rifles.

    The Mosin Nagant, less than $100.

    The 1917 Enfield (if all original, not refinished and with a good bore) might go $500.

    The others will depend heavily on condition. Are they refinished? Where were they made? K98's were made by the Spanish, Czechs, Yugo's, etc. The SMLE might be made in India, GB or some commonwealth country.
     
  4. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    here is the info i was given on them........






    #2. 1891 Mosin-Nagant 7.92X54 (nominally called an 8mm). It fires ‘rimmed’ ammunition. This is a numbers matching piece, with Russian proof marks that was manufactured in 1909; Then re-worked in the Czech Republic in the late 20’s. It shows some combat wear, and was possibly used in the battle of Stalingrad in WWII. The bore and action are still in ‘good’ to ‘very good’ condition. It also has a very good numbers matching


    #3. 98 Mauser (1898) MFG in early 1900’s (possibly for Spain) and most likely used in WWI.
    This is an 7.92 - 8mm piece in very good condition, showing less than expected wear & tear for it’s age. Bore & action are in ‘good’ to ‘very good’ condition. (Cosmoline is still evident in the breech & magazine).



    #4. U.S. Model 17 or also known as the P-17 MFG approximately 1917 by Enfield of England from a U.S. design. This rifle is in 30-06 cal, has matching #’s and is in very good visual condition, the barrel is very good, and the action is tight. This weapon is the ‘next generation’ following the “Springfield 1903-A3”



    #5. 1918 MKIII SMLE (Short Magazine Lee Enfield) British .303; this piece has an unusual rear sight, with protective ‘wings’ on the sides. Bore & action in ‘good’ to ‘very good’ condition.
     
  5. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

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    Well, much of his information is wrong, so I'd be leery of trusting his appraisal. The 1917 was not the "next generation" following the 1903. The 762X54 has never been "nominally called an 8mm". Spain did not participate in WWI.

    They may be good rifles, but since this guy knows nothing about rifles I'd want to examine them myself.

    You can pick up a good Mosin anywhere for about $79. The others... I'd pass unless they were dirt cheap.
     
  6. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    well.....what's dirt cheap? should i just put a $100 bid on everything? i was thinking of maybe putting a $350 bid on the 1917. the Mauser looks nice. those bayonets are cheap right?

    this is an estate sale, so naturally the guy isnt going to know about his guns. i think they were his dad's who died. and his dad was a gun collector.
     
  7. cleardiddion

    cleardiddion Member

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  8. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer member

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    Yeah, I think you'd be safe at $350 with the P17 as long as it's all original and really has a good bore.

    I'd bid $50 on the Mosin since you can pick them up anywhere for not much more.

    The SMLE could be one of the Ishapore manufactured rifles, so I'd be very careful. It could be worth anywhere from $150 to $500 depending on model, manufacturer and condition.

    The Mauser could be a Spanish made 98, or German 98 made for the Spanish. Or it could be a Spanish small ring (93) - I can't tell from the photo. I wouldn't bid more than $100 unless I could get more information.
     
  9. carbine85

    carbine85 Member

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    Last year I sold a 1917 Eddystone, properly marked and a horrible barrle for $350.00. I never would have paid that myself. I recently saw some very nice German Mausers for $250-300.00. My brother recently bought a Nagant that looks like new for $100.00.
     
  10. iamkris

    iamkris Member

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    Man, those descriptions remind me of a bunch of guns I bought from an older gentleman's estate. Sometimes it is frightening how little people know...or more properly, how much stuff they get wrong. He gets ID wrong, calibers are wrong, the lineage of the M1917 is wrong. Pathetic.

    As stated, wrong ID on the Mosin and the Mauser. The Mauser sure looks like a 24/47 and is likely worth right around $325.

    The M1917 is worth a lot more than the $350 people are throwing around here. When the CMP still had them, they went for $500 and the CMP is usually "below market".
     
  11. henschman

    henschman Member

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    1917s in good condition can go for $700 or more... especially now that the CMP doesn't have them anymore.
     
  12. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    thanks for the help guys. the guy who is selling the guns sent me some better detailed pics. the 1917 looks flawless and has all matching numbers. the mauser looks pretty good too and has matching numbers.

    the MKIII enfield looks good, not great and the mosin nagant looks excellent.

    anyone have any ideas what i should bid on each one?
     
  13. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    im thinking this:

    $100 on the mosin

    $200 on the MkIII

    $250 on the mauser

    $375 on the 1917


    what do yall think? should i submitt that and see what happens? or should i raise my bid on one of these? any help would be great. the auction ends at midnight tonight.

    thanks.
     
  14. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    The 1917 is the stand out. The Moisin you could pass on, not that rare. Ditto for the Mauser, Spanish Mausers aren't that rare.

    The Enfield is a toss-up. Unless you REALLY want it, I might pass on one in better shape.

    Keep the $$ you'd bid on the Mauser and Moisin, to bid on the 1917. I'd start bidding at $350, stop at 700-800. (Most for sale at Simpson's are less than $1000).
     
  15. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    thanks dr. rob........the mauser is standing at $115 right now. should i at least put a $200 bid on it?

    also....if i win the 1917....what kind of 30-06 can i shoot out of it? 150grain?
     
  16. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    The Mosin could be worth more depending on arsenal and year. But without more info it's not worth risking more than $150 on it. From the tiny pic it almost seems to have a high sight on the front. That would make it a Finn or Finn capture. Those are also pretty easy to get though. Just not enough info on it.

    The 1917 is the obvious target for any acquisition though. It appears intact. Those are getting harder and harder to find. I can't tell from the pics if its parkerized (WWII rearsenal) or not. Keep an eye out for inspector marks on the stock--none other than Elmer Keith used to do some of that work.

    The 1917 is a very tough action--stronger than the 1903. It can fire pretty much any .30'06 made if the headspace is good and the rifle is in good condition. I've seen those actions used for very potent magnum rifles. But please do not alter this one. They're a piece of American history that's getting tougher to find.

    The Czech Mauser looks interwar. They were very plentiful a few years ago, not quite as easy to find now. I would put $200 on it. $250 tops if you really want to shoot 8x57JS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  17. Pronghorn

    Pronghorn Member

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    thats a 24/47 yugo mauser. In that condition its worth only about $150-200. the reason that is has a "good" bore is because yugoslavia never lined their bores with anything, and they shoot corrosive ammunition. I'd watch out with that one.

    The mosin is going to be around $90-100 it appears to have a hex receiver, but if it doesn't that means it's just some re-worked factory frankenstein as was common for surplus rifles. And the battle of Stalingrad was just one of many fights going on at exactly the same time in a country that is larger than the U.S. I highly doubt that it was in the battle of Stalingrad unless it comes with proper documentation stating such. (these tall tales are common among suplus rifle collectors).

    The enfield is a #1 Mk3 and those are a bit harder to come by now adays. The "unusual" rear sight is the exact opposite of unusual. All #1 Mk3's have it. The seller is confusing them with a #4 Mk1 which is the common WWII variant. I would bid no more than $300 for that rifle. Again, I would suggest looking at the bore and action of the rifle, and make sure it functions smoothly with no corrosion or damage to the mechanism. I have examined several and some had what appeared to be binding locking lugs.

    The US model 17 is the nicest rifle out of all of them. I would go up to $600 for that one. However, I would check the butt stock and finish on the metal before buying it. If it matters to you (I don't know if your a serious collector or not). It appears to have been refinished. I believe that the finish on the metal for this pattern rifle during this era should be slightly green. Also, the wood should show basic wear and tear, but this one does not. It also appears that the buttplate was colored the same finish as the wood (A mistake that many make when re-finishing wood on surplus guns).

    The model 1400 the "jam o matic" as my grandfather says. My experience and information all points to this gun negatively. However, It is in good condition and I would make a reasonable offer of $200-250.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  18. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I must be getting rusty on Mauser ID. I thought the Yugo 24/47's were CZ made.
     
  19. 06

    06 Member

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    That "17" is a nice shooter. I have fired from 150 to 220 gn in mine and it handled them flawlessly. Smooth shooter.
     
  20. rule303

    rule303 Member

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    The Mosin is an 1891 dragoon, not the usual refurbed 91/30's we are used to seeing on sale for $79. Depending on the manufactrer,date, condition, and any capture marks present it could be worth as much or more than the other rifles.
     
  21. Ian

    Ian Member

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    Yeah, that's not a 91/30, it's an M1891. Definitely something to snag if everyone else thinks it's just a run of the mill Mosin.
     
  22. skipbo32

    skipbo32 Member

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    so how can you tell the Mosin is "special"....sorry im a noob at these guns. how much should i bid on the Mosin?

    im gunna really make a push to get the P17 though. and i might put 150 on the mauser.
     
  23. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...protective ‘wings’ on the sides..." As mentioned that's the way No. 1 Mk III's came. Certainly not enough info for even a 'ball park' value. Wouldn't part with $200 for it in that condition.
    Don't even think about buying it without getting proof of good headspace and the barrel's internal diameter either. Lee-Enfields are notorious for being assembled out of parts bins with zero QC. Not that one though. Too rough. Fixing bad headspace is easy, if you have a handful of bolt heads to try with proper guages(no bits of tape, paper, shim stock or anything else). Stripped bolt heads run $13.30 each from Gunparts.
    The barrels can measure from .311" to .315" and still be considered ok. Over .315", the barrel is shot out.
     
  24. Smoovbiscuit

    Smoovbiscuit Member

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    as one of the previous posts said, not all mosin's are worth less than $100. The older ones are worth much more than the refurbished ww2 models.

    Thats about the extent of my knowledge on them, but I do know than some can be rare and expensive.
     
  25. Disparate

    Disparate Member

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    Kodiakbeer,

    K98s were not made by the Spanish, Czechoslovakians or the Yugoslavioans....K98s were only made by the Germans.

    The Spanish contracted for Mausers. The Czechs contracted for mausers as well (V24s, etc) and the Yugos made a different albeit similar 7.92 mm bolt action (M-48 and varients). The K-98 is a pure German rifle (actually carbine).
     
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