X-Treme 124gr FP load workup in 9mm

[vaalpens]

Over Thanksgiving with the 20% discount I decided to try the X-Treme 124gr FP out. Since these are only rated to 1200fps, all my load development will be done for 9mm. No need to try them out in 357sig.

My plan is to do a full powder workup using at least BE-86, HP-38 and PowerPistol, only CCI500 primers and a COL of 1.060". I have not seen much gain in accuracy playing with the COL, so I will just stick with my normal COL. part of the plan is to just see what data the loads produce, and then decide which loads I want to use and for what purpose. Hopefully these results will help somebody else looking for something specific.

The following load results are from my PowerPistol load. My target decent load was 5.6gr, and then bracket loads lower and higher than 5.6gr. I decided to have more loads below 5.6gr due to these bullet rated lower than 1200fps. I did not expect another accurate load over 1100fps. As expected the 5.6gr load performed very well. This is a load I have used with different bullets and it always performs well. Another accurate load was my starting load of 5.3gr. I think this load could have produced a better grouping, since I could see only one hole after the first 4 shots, and then messed up a bit with the last shot. I will probably test this load again, but maybe do a 5.2gr, 5.3gr and 5.4gr load again just to verify.

The testing was done using a rest from 15yards, with the chrono placed at 4 yards. Please note that the scope was not zeroed since I was only looking at grouping results.

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, PowerPistol, 5.3gr, CCI500
Average: 1022
ES: 20
SD: 8.3
Force: 288
PF: 126
Velocities: 1013, 1028, 1020, 1033, 1016
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.63"
Test Date: 12/26/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, PowerPistol, 5.4gr, CCI500
Average: 1027
ES: 21
SD: 9.4
Force: 290
PF: 127
Velocities: 1035, 1019, 1018, 1028, 1039
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.35"
Test Date: 12/26/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, PowerPistol, 5.5gr, CCI500
Average: 1050
ES: 14
SD: 5.7
Force: 304
PF: 130
Velocities: 1052, 1054, 1048, 1041, 1055
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.37"
Test Date: 12/26/2017


9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, PowerPistol, 5.6gr, CCI500
Average: 1062
ES: 18
SD: 6.7
Force: 310
PF: 131
Velocities: 1061, 1056, 1074, 1062, 1061
Best Grouping @ 15yd: 0.47"
Test Date: 12/26/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, PowerPistol, 5.7gr, CCI500
Average: 1064
ES: 11
SD: 4
Force: 312
PF: 131
Velocities: 1063, 1059, 1065, 1070, 1066
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.6"
Test Date: 12/26/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, PowerPistol, 5.8gr, CCI500
Average: 1072
ES: 30
SD: 13.7
Force: 316
PF: 132
Velocities: 1073, 1083, 1089, 1059, 1059
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.26"
Test Date: 12/26/2017

 

[santacruzdave]

Looking forward to your BE-86 and HP-38 results. I also picked up a batch of the 124 gr. FP. And I have a stock of BE-86 and HP-38.

 

[vaalpens]

My HP-38 load workup was done over two sessions and produced some strange results with the second session. The load using 4.3gr of HP-38 did not group well, plus one of the rounds actually keyholed. It is not a velocity issue, so something else must have gone wrong. I will probably retest the 4.3gr and 4.4gr loads, just to confirm what I have seen.

HP-38 has produced one accurate load for me, but it seems I could not find an accurate load at higher velocities.

The testing was done using a rest from 15yards, with the chrono placed at 4 yards. Please note that the scope was not zeroed since I was only looking at grouping results.

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: Ammoload
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, HP38, 3.9gr, CCI500
Average: 938
ES: 3
SD: 1.3
Force: 242
PF: 116
Velocities: 939, 940, 937, 937, 938
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.77"
Test Date: 12/09/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: Ammoload
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, HP38, 4gr, CCI500
Average: 964
ES: 17
SD: 7
Force: 256
PF: 119
Velocities: 969, 964, 959, 974, 957
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.85"
Test Date: 12/09/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: Ammoload
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, HP38, 4.1gr, CCI500
Average: 975
ES: 0
SD:
Force: 262
PF: 120
Velocities: 975, , , ,
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.35"
Test Date: 12/09/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: Ammoload
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, HP38, 4.2gr, CCI500
Average: 993
ES: 19
SD: 7.8
Force: 271
PF: 123
Velocities: 987, 1004, 993, 998, 985
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.91"
Test Date: 12/09/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, HP38, 4.3gr, CCI500
Average: 998
ES: 23
SD: 8.3
Force: 274
PF: 123
Velocities: 1010, 1000, 987, 996, 999
Grouping @ 15yd: 4.5"
Test Date: 12/26/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, HP38, 4.4gr, CCI500
Average: 1019
ES: 15
SD: 6.5
Force: 286
PF: 126
Velocities: 1020, 1010, 1015, 1025, 1025
Grouping @ 15yd: 2.3"
Test Date: 12/26/2017

 

[vaalpens]

Looking forward to your BE-86 and HP-38 results. I also picked up a batch of the 124 gr. FP. And I have a stock of BE-86 and HP-38.

Thanks for the comments. I still have to create my BE-86 loads, but so far I am planning on 5.2gr up to 5.7gr. I will probably also load up some CFE Pistol loads, and maybe even try Unique. Unique has surprised me with the accuracy I found in 357sig, so maybe I get lucky in 9mm also.

 

[santacruzdave]

Awesome, in the powder shortage all I could find was CFE Pistol. Loaded some Hornady 9mm 125gr HAPs and found that CFE really needed high pressure to burn clean. Fairly accurate out of a Beretta M9A1, but really dirty at all but max loads. Somehow I ended up with 16 lbs of CFE-Pistol and have been looking for a use for it ever since. Then when BE-86 made quite a splash on a number of forums I again somehow ended up with 16 pounds of that as well. So I'm interested in what others are doing with both these powders. Thanks for making your results public!

 

[Ruger 15151]

Great shooting! Were these from a ransom rest?

I wish you had some Sport Pistol to test along side of these loads.

 

[vaalpens]

Great shooting! Were these from a ransom rest?

I wish you had some Sport Pistol to test along side of these loads.

I have been looking for Sport Pistol for a while now, but haven't been able to find anything locally. It also took a while for BE-86 to show up, but now it seems they have it in stock most of the time.

Thanks for the ransom rest question. It made my day. No, I just use a cheap MTM rest and it seems to work good enough for me. Here is a picture of my setup when I test my loads.

 

[Chuck R.]

Very goo info, and excellent shooting!

I run these same bullets at 1286FPS out of a 3.4" barreled 357SIG without issue, makes for cheap practice out of my HK P2000 and SIG 226 in 357S.

Chuck

 

[vaalpens]

Very goo info, and excellent shooting!

I run these same bullets at 1286FPS out of a 3.4" barreled 357SIG without issue, makes for cheap practice out of my HK P2000 and SIG 226 in 357S.

Chuck

X-Treme do indicate that for velocities over 1200fps to use the thicker plated bullets:

Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy

It wasn't my plan to use these FP bullets in 357sig, but I do have an accurate practice load for 357sig averaging at 1254fps, which I could probably try with the FP bullet. No plans yet, but it is maybe something I will try.

 

[Chuck R.]

X-Treme do indicate that for velocities over 1200fps to use the thicker plated bullets:

It wasn't my plan to use these FP bullets in 357sig, but I do have an accurate practice load for 357sig averaging at 1254fps, which I could probably try with the FP bullet. No plans yet, but it is maybe something I will try.

Yup, and right above the quote you posted they say their plated bullets are good to 1500...

Load Info
Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp

Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp

http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm

I started using them in the 357SIG after reading one of the reviews for the 124 RNFPs, there were 2 for 357S and 1 for 38 Super and sure enough they work.

Chuck

 

[vaalpens]

Yup, and right above the quote you posted they say their plated bullets are good to 1500...


http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm

I started using them in the 357SIG after reading one of the reviews for the 124 RNFPs, there were 2 for 357S and 1 for 38 Super and sure enough they work.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck. That is also what I took from there bullet load info. It would be interesting to see how accurate these bullets are over 1200fps. I'll put these bullets through my setback and fit test, then try them in 357sig.

 

[vaalpens]

I did my normal setback and fit test for the Xtreme 124gr bullet to see if they would work for me in 357sig. Following are the results:

Bullet Length: .5260"
Diameter: .3550"
Target COL based on bullet profile: 1.125"
Loaded 2 dummy rounds:
Case: Speer
Case Length: .860"
Seating Die: Lee
Crimp: .3785" (used Lee FCD with light crimp since these are plated bullets)
COL after crimp: 1.123" and 1.121"
Plunk test: Pass
Cycle test is loading dummy bullet, lock back slide, release slide without riding slide:
COL after cycle 1: 1.123" and 1.121"
COL after cycle 2: 1.123" and 1.121"
COL after cycle 3: 1.123" and 1.121"
COL after cycle 4: 1.123" and 1.121"
Bathroom scale test is done by pushing bullet down on digital scale, holding it for 5 seconds until weight register. Both bullets were done and 20lbs were registered.
COL after bathroom scale test: 1.123" and 1.121"

Conclusion: This bullet passed my normal setback and fit test for 357sig and all indication are that it will work in 357sig. The only remaining question now is how the plating will hold up at over 1200fps.

My plan at this point is to create 357sig loads using the Xtreme 124gr FP bullet, with a COL of 1.125", using Unique, with powder charges of 6.9gr, 7.0gr, 7.1gr and 7.2gr. The target velocities will be around 1250fps.

 

[mmorris]

The testing was done using a rest from 15yards, with the chrono placed at 12 yards.

From the picture you posted of your set up, it looks more like the chrono was set up at 12 feet instead of 12 yards. Do my old eyes combined with the camera position fool me?

 

[vaalpens]

From the picture you posted of your set up, it looks more like the chrono was set up at 12 feet instead of 12 yards. Do my old eyes combined with the camera position fool me?

Your eyes are just perfect. The chrono is set up at 12feet or 4 yards. Looks like your old eyes are better than my old brain.

 

[vaalpens]

Today I tested my BE-86 loads with the Xtreme 124gr FP bullet. The grouping for the loads were not bad, but not as accurate as I expected. Following are the results from my test:

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, BE86, 5.2gr, CCI500
Average: 1041
ES: 23
SD: 9.3
Force: 298
PF: 129
Velocities: 1058, 1038, 1035, 1038, 1039
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.5"
Test Date: 12/30/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, BE86, 5.3gr, CCI500
Average: 1057
ES: 19
SD: 7
Force: 308
PF: 131
Velocities: 1054, 1059, 1056, 1049, 1068
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.63"
Test Date: 12/30/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, BE86, 5.4gr, CCI500
Average: 1069
ES: 30
SD: 12.4
Force: 315
PF: 132
Velocities: 1057, 1063, 1062, 1087, 1077
Grouping @ 15yd: 2.04"
Test Date: 12/30/2017


9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, BE86, 5.5gr, CCI500
Average: 1080
ES: 26
SD: 10.5
Force: 321
PF: 133
Velocities: 1089, 1077, 1065, 1091, 1078
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.19"
Test Date: 12/30/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, BE86, 5.6gr, CCI500
Average: 1094
ES: 18
SD: 7.5
Force: 329
PF: 135
Velocities: 1084, 1102, 1100, 1097, 1090
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.5"
Test Date: 12/30/2017

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: WCC
COL: 1.060"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, BE86, 5.7gr, CCI500
Average: 1116
ES: 12
SD: 4.7
Force: 343
PF: 138
Velocities: 1113, 1118, 1123, 1115, 1111
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.97"
Test Date: 12/30/2017

 

[Dudedog]

Thanks for posting for us all.

 

[vaalpens]

Based on some pf the posts regarding using the Xtreme 124gr FP in 357sig, I also tested a few in 357sig just to get some idea how it performs. Since Xtreme indicates that the thicker plated bullets should be used for better accuracy over 1200fps, I did not expect excellent accuracy, but rather something that is somewhere in the 1.5" range or less at 15 yards. The loads I picked were in a range that normally are very accurate for FP FMJ bullets, so it should give me some indication how usable the bullets will be in 357sig. Following are the results:

I have included two images showing the grouping. This basically reflects all of the results I have seen. It seems that 4 shots always have some sort of decent grouping, with one shot out to the right. I can't say if this was always the first or last shot, but something was going on with the bullets since my chrono started having bad readings for the last two loads. I chrono'd many more shots after this, so I know it is not the chrono. It seems to me something similar to when I had the chrono too close to the gun. So it could be something else upsetting the reading, like plating coming of or something else.

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, Unique, 6.9gr, CCI500
Average: 1206
ES: 34
SD: 15.6
Force: 400
PF: 149
Velocities: 1221, 1192, 1195, 1200, 1226
Grouping @ 15yd: 3.5"
Test Date: 12/30/2017


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, Unique, 7gr, CCI500
Average: 1239
ES: 20
SD: 7.9
Force: 423
PF: 153
Velocities: 1248, 1228, 1238, 1246, 1239
Grouping @ 15yd: 2.95"
Test Date: 12/30/2017


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, Unique, 7.1gr, CCI500
Average: 1247
ES: 27
SD: 19.1
Force: 428
PF: 154
Velocities: 1234, 1261, , , (some missed readings)
Grouping @ 15yd: 3.04"
Test Date: 12/30/2017

357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.140"
Xtreme, 124gr, FP, Unique, 7.2gr, CCI500
Average: 1211
ES: 37
SD: 14.1
Force: 404
PF: 150
Velocities: 1217, 1217, 1190, 1227, 1206 (some bad reading)
Grouping @ 15yd: 2.44"
Test Date: 12/30/2017

My conclusion is that there must be a reason for Xtreme to say that the thicker plated bullets should be used over 1200fps for better accuracy. It is probably not due to the bullet design or core, but rather due to the plating. The bullet is a great fit in 357sig, but I think it should be loaded for below 1200fps velocities just to be on the safe side.

Since the groupings and chrono seemed a bit strange to me, I decided to take some ammo I had with me and test it to see how it performs. Just to make sure I did not have a chrono or setup issue. Following are the results from the test showing everything was working as they should:


357sig, P229, 3.9"
Case: Speer
COL: 1.125"
RMR, 124gr, JHP, BE86, 7.6gr, CCI500
Average: 1291
ES: 29
SD: 11.2
Force: 459
PF: 160
Velocities: 1295, 1274, 1303, 1298, 1289
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.52"
Test Date: 12/30/2017