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You might want to rethink your Home Defense gun

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by GunnyUSMC, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    I like revolves, always have and most likely always will. I even keep a loaded, five shot 38 next to my bed.
    But criminals today are not the criminal of yesterday. They are better armed and more willing to shoot.
    Home Invasions are more common today then most people think. A few weeks ago there was a home invasion in Louisiana that went bad for the bad guys.
    Two young black men thought they would kick in the front door of a house in a nice upscale neighborhood. They were well armed with high capacity semiautomatic handguns.
    The plan was to kick in the front door, take the home owner hostage, demand money, or take the hostage to an ATM and get money.
    Well things didn’t go as planned. The home owner was quick to arm himself with a semiautomatic pistol and engage the intruders.
    When it was all over, more then 40 rounds were fired in the house. One of the bad guys was dead, the other running for his life.
    If the home owner would have had a revolver, there may have been a different outcome.
    I still like my revolvers and my 38 will stay on my nightstand, but I also have an SBR with a 30 round mag next to the nightstand.
     
  2. drband

    drband Member

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    So true. A reliable semi-auto pistol or good revolver are the minimum choices.
     
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  3. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    I think a AR carbine has many features to recommend it, including: ease of aiming vs a sidearm, low recoil, high capacity, and reduced over-penetration (with appropriate bullet selection). I can live with the noise as a trade-off.
     
  4. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    What did he wind up grabbing and how many shots did he fire?
     
  5. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    I would tweak this in just two ways: make the gun an SBR or AR pistol and add a suppressor, and you've got a terrific home defense gun.

    Something like this:

    P1300994.JPG

    or this

    P1290850.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  6. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    On my side of the bed I have a loaded Ruger Vaquero 45 Colt hanging on the headboard post in a holster.

    On my wife's side of the bed she has a loaded S&W M&P 9mm with a 17 round magazine in the gun along with two spare loaded 17 round mags and a very protective 60# German Shepherd mix dog.

    Maybe I should switch the side of the bed I sleep on.

    Your point about a having a carbine close at hand is well taken.
     
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  7. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    As of right now all I can disclose is the basis.
     
  8. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    Chance favors the prepared.

    Even so, how would things have fared if the homeowner had a shotgun? Bolt action rifle? I don’t know and neither does anybody else.

    What I observe here though is this. Not the weapon used but rather the would be victim having any weapon at all AND being willing to use it. Once again, mindset trumps toolset. However with the right mindset, the right toolset can be quite powerful.

    All that being said, I too have revamped my night time defensive arsenal. My wife has her Glock 19 with two 17 rd mags and I have my S&W 66 and my S&W 60 close by along with a Browning BPS 20ga with some #3. I have a carbine but I am more comfortable with the shotgun.

    I made my bed myself and it is constructed of 7/8” solid cherry and 1 1/2” steel square tubing that can offer some pretty decent cover if you get low enough if need be.
     
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  9. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    A good reminder, Gunny.

    Wife's 226 and an AR are available via night stand.

    That blissful week of buying standard mags in my state really opened some doors.
     
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  10. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    There is lots to be said about having means of defense ready to go but I don’t think there is enough about things that can help before the bad guys are already inside your house.

    When we lived in town I started putting IR motion sensors around the house. Makes a big difference in what you know about things going on outside the house. Will also startle some folks that come to your door, if you open it up as they are reaching for the door bell.

    Now we can tell if anyone is within 100 yards of the house, a lot more buffer than knowing once the door is busted in.
     
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  11. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Luke

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    It's good for everyone to think about; everyone thinks they live in a safe neighborhood where it won't happen but like the story above went, the criminals will sometimes will take Paladin's motto, "have gun, will travel (to a good neighborhood)".

    I think a 10.5" pistol/sbr AR15 would be a really great home defense gun in most all areas except the concussion and volume of a 556 coming out of a 10.5" barrel would be very brutal within a home. One can add a suppressor which is ideal, at the downside of length of operation within hallways and such. If one doesn't have a suppressor adding a good flash suppressor would be a must.

    For me it makes sense to have a vest/belt at quick ready with extra loaded mags for the pistol that is at ready for this purpose (with quality SD ammo) that also has what else one might need in a home invasion (zip cuffs, flashlight, knife, etc).

    Probably the best thing homeowners can do is practicing or at least running it through one's head on how to clear their house. Where one can take cover and concealment; and where one has a vantage point of an entry that provides good cover and their ability to return fire. And make your family aware of what to do if they hear or see something going on in the house; i.e. whether to stay put, or congregate into one room, go out the window to get to another room (we have a wrap around porch). In most cases (where the perpetrator hasn't been in your house) you have the strategic advantage of layout and knowledge of where one is in the open and where the soft points are.

    Other points that are off topic but so very important to have to do before the perpetrators get into the house @GunnyUSMC's post are: hardening your home's perimeter with lights, deadbolts, alarms, dogs, etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  12. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    There's a reason why my Scorpion lives close at hand.
     
  13. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    My nightstand gun is still a revolver since the wife has only very basic handgun skills and she is likely more effective with this than an auto. That said, my AR9 is always close at hand in the closet and is my go-to when things go bump in the night.
     
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  14. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    You had me right up to zip ties. . . absolutely not. If someone's still a threat, he'll get another bullet; if not, he can chill right there on the floor and pray the Police show before he bleeds out.

    Now if you meant the zip tie as an emergency tourniquet for wounded friendlies . .
     
  15. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Eh, good luck proving that the guy on the floor was still a threat when you finished him off.

    Unfortunately, I have some experience with this situation. After subdoing an attacker and restraining him while the wife called the cops, I got to listen to the 911 operator yelling at ME that I had to let the SOB up and couldnt hold him down. Ya, right.

    Some cuffs or zippy-ties woulda come in handy in that situation.

    Fortunately, the responding officers were sympathetic.
     
  16. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    I thought I was done being disarmed for a while... while there are foster-kids in the home guns and ammo must be securely locked in separate containers. I finalized adoption on my set of siblings and we immediately got another. Worst part about it is that these kids all have that “nightmare” story you hope to never encounter. My kids have lived through the nightmare, just to have a life full of counseling and emotional scars. Biological family is still around, and loose. All it takes is one tanked up idiot to figure out where the child is and it will be a fight to the death in which the state claiming to have best interest of the child in mind has intentionally disarmed me for the time being.

    That said, I could still have a m9 with 18 in it and 5 spare 17rd mags handy in a matter of about 45 seconds. Way too long, but that’s opening 2 safes and getting into battle if I’m still standing.

    Security of information is a big deal at our house. The school systems barely get the kids full legal names. Sadly a big fat chow/lab mix is the only thing slowing somebody down if they decide to come at me, but that dog is a bit timid and loud. All she is good for is to be an alarm. She keeps her distance but wakes the dead.
     
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  17. BigSteve57

    BigSteve57 Member

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    With regards to home invasion...
    Consider hardening your doors and windows to make it so they can't be easily "kicked".
    This means steel doors & frames and "security" storm doors.
    Also consider outfitting INTERIOR doors with steel doors & frames with deadbolt locks that can be unlocked from the inside (example bedroom door) or are double cylinder (example: kitchen to basement, closets, bathrooms).

    While doing this type of hardening won't stop the marines, and it isn't the intent to do so, all you need is 30 seconds maybe less to prepare.
    Also, knowing where an intruder can and can't go easily is a HUGE tactical advantage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  18. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    I've never been a big fan of zip cuffs outside of large officer presence situations. They aren't the easiest to get on a resisting suspect without having another person to hold their arms in place. And straight up forget about normal zip ties. Trying to thread the tongue through the lock in the dark with a resisting suspect is an absolute no go.

    Standard handcuffs are much better and aren't that expensive. The advantage that zip cuffs have is that they are lighter and easier to transport in bulk. You don't have to worry about that in your house.
     
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  19. earplug

    earplug Member

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    Surprised that few have mentioned using a 9MM based carbine as a house gun.
    They have some advantages over various 5.56 based weapons due to muzzle blast and less expensive to practice with,
    Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) is now a class for various shooting sports. This makes training a lot more fun.
    School me if i'm wrong, but aren't suppressors supposed to be looked up while in storage?
    I'm just nit picking the suggestion for using one on a house gun. I'm curious if anyone has ever been charged with breaking various laws while defending themselves with a suppressor.
     
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  20. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    My SBR scorpion and it's can are in my trust, which both my wife and I are part of. No one else lives in the house.
     
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  21. Browning

    Browning Member

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    For the house I'd just use the same Glock 19 and 26 that get carried if there were a problem.

    For a long gun since the mid-90's the long guns in our house has gone from Remington 870 ..
    .. to a Remington 1100
    .. to an AR-15
    .. to the Remington 1100 and an AR-15
    .. to a CZ Scorpion
    .. and then to an AR-15 with a CZ Scorpion. That's where it is currently.

    If I had a suppressor I'd likely just use the KISS AR with irons and a Surefire light (that's the AR I typically take with me out to the deer lease and on trips), but I don't. I have electronic ears by the bed, but events might overtake my ability to respond or I might forget about them. My ears do better indoors with a 9mm than they do a .223 Rem.
     
  22. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    I haven't seen many 9mm carbines run as reliably as I would like to see.
     
  23. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    My ar pistol and an ar carbine are under the bed in a hornady under bed safe. They both have 30rd mags and spares.
     
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  24. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    I took exactly the same approach.
     
  25. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    I will say that the home owner put up one hell of a fight. Bullets were recovered from just about everything in the kitchen and living room. The home owner fired over 20 rounds. One of the biggest deciding factors in a gun fight is, the first one to run out of ammo will most likely be the looser.
     
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