Your carry gun is NOT for Show & Tell

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Why will you not answer my question?:scrutiny:
AGAIN, why on earth do you need to draw a loaded firearm and clear it inside a gun store?

Maybe a store's liability policy is to clear firearms once inside in front of an employee. Maybe they have a range that requires clearing every firearm when entering and exiting the range. Maybe they have a holster maker doing custom orders. Maybe a store worker is genuinely curious about a customer's firearm and trusts them to clear it instead of walking outside to do so. Maybe they have a celebrity doing autographs inside that you had no prior knowledge of, and their opinion is no one inside can be armed. Seeing how NONE of these are legitimate reasons and anyone who does/allows one to do so is an IDIOT, according to your opinion. Again, if your opinion is there is no reason to ever clear a firearm in a store, ever, why do you bother to ask the same rhetorical question when no answer is satisfactory, based on your opinion?

As I said, we disagree. You run your store how you want.

In the OP's video.......do you think the gun store bears any liability for the negligent handling and discharge?

Honestly? No. It looks like this video happened outside of the US. Maybe South America would be my guess. Other countries are far less litigious than the United States in terms of personal injury, negligence lawsuits compared to we are here. In US case law, if someone is injured it is always "someone else's" fault.
 
Clearing inside a store aside, that is the dead horse. This accident could have happened anywhere.
Bingo.
Why will you not answer my question?:scrutiny:
AGAIN, why on earth do you need to draw a loaded firearm and clear it inside a gun store?

See above.
The location is immaterial. You think somehow the dude would have been less shot if this had taken place at the range?
 
Im really kind of surprised that the insurance companies dont have a say in something like this. They rule the world and usually tell you what you can do and cant.

Hell, I almost didnt get a mortgage because of my dogs and homeowners insurance, and then they told me I cant use the wood stove that came with the house because it doesnt have an Underwriters label on it. I would think they wouldnt insure you if they might have to pay out on something like that.
 
Maybe a store's liability policy is to clear firearms once inside in front of an employee.
Seriously? You've lost the plot.
Nothing prevents the customer from clearing his firearm in his car, a block away, at home or in the parking lot. It's good business and safety practice to have an employee verify the firearm is clear.



Maybe they have a range that requires clearing every firearm when entering and exiting the range. Maybe they have a holster maker doing custom orders. Maybe a store worker is genuinely curious about a customer's firearm and trusts them to clear it instead of walking outside to do so. Maybe they have a celebrity doing autographs inside that you had no prior knowledge of, and their opinion is no one inside can be armed.
Would you agree the act of clearing a loaded firearm entails greater risk than showing clear on an unloaded firearm?
All those reasons..........not a one prohibits YOU THE CUSTOMER from exiting the store and clearing your firearm and reentering. The point you can't grasp is that a negligent discharge inside the store has a greater likelihood of striking an employee or another customer than clearing the firearm outside the store. Remember, even you plan on pointing at a stack of books.:rofl:



Seeing how NONE of these are legitimate reasons and anyone who does/allows one to do so is an IDIOT, according to your opinion.
No sir. Those are fully legitimate reasons to present an unloaded firearm to the stores employees. You can't wrap your head around the risks associated with a store allowing customers to perform their own loading unloading inside that store. A negligent discharge inside that store is fully on the store owner. An ND in his parking lot? Not as likely to be found as contributing to the negligent act.


Again, if your opinion is there is no reason to ever clear a firearm in a store, ever, why do you bother to ask the same rhetorical question when no answer is satisfactory, based on your opinion?
My question wasn't rhetorical.



As I said, we disagree. You run your store how you want.
Do YOU own a gun store?
Are you an FFL?
Do you pay liability insurance?
If no, no, no..........get your FFL and open a store and start paying bills and your tune will change.



Honestly? No. It looks like this video happened outside of the US. Maybe South America would be my guess. Other countries are far less litigious than the United States in terms of personal injury, negligence lawsuits compared to we are here
Safe firearm handling procedures are the same worldwide..

In US case law, if someone is injured it is always "someone else's" fault
A case doesn't even have to go to trial to bankrupt a small LGS.
 
The location is immaterial. You think somehow the dude would have been less shot if this had taken place at the range?
Ask the plaintiffs attorney if the location is immaterial.
The counter inside a gun shop is not the place to draw your loaded firearm and start fiddling with it.

You and others seem to have missed the point of this thread. Might be a good time to read John's OP.;)
 
Seriously? You've lost the plot.

Every single instance I mentioned is one I have experienced. With instruction to clear there, not outside or put it in the car. If anyone has lost the plot, it has been yourself.

Do YOU own a gun store?
Are you an FFL?
Do you pay liability insurance?
If no, no, no..........get your FFL and open a store and start paying bills and your tune will change.

I am supposed to care you are an FFL...why exactly? Is your opinion about how to run a store somehow relevant to how one is run in South America (where I am guessing this incident happens) or even the other side of Texas? No. It isn't.

Safe firearm handling procedures are the same worldwide..

You asked if I thought the gun store had any liability in the ND. Liability is a legal and insurance term. Nothing about your question was related to firearms safety in different countries. In my worldly experience, firearms handling in other parts of the world is sorely lacking compared to the US.

My question wasn't rhetorical.
A question where no answer is satisfactory is, by definition, rhetorical.

You can't wrap your head around the risks associated with a store allowing customers to perform their own loading unloading inside that store. A negligent discharge inside that store is fully on the store owner. An ND in his parking lot? Not as likely to be found as contributing to the negligent act.

My entire point is there are times when clearing a firearm in a store can be done safely. Not by every Tom, Dick, and Harry that comes in. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I will ask if I can clear in a store first. I'm lazy and lots of our gun stores have big parking lots. If I am told no, I do my clearing business outside or not at all. That is a far cry from advocating everyone should clear inside whenever they want to.

Im really kind of surprised that the insurance companies dont have a say in something like this. They rule the world and usually tell you what you can do and cant.

Insurance plays a big role. Have you been to a gun show in the last few years? If you have more than likely they had you clear anything you brought in. The liability insurance to hold a gun show in a convention hall, civic center, or any place that rents to the public has sway. Same thing at a range. Having shooters only load when at their firing station, bench etc is safer from a liability standpoint than just walking in with firearms loaded.
 
Ask the plaintiffs attorney if the location is immaterial.
The counter inside a gun shop is not the place to draw your loaded firearm and start fiddling with it.

You and others seem to have missed the point of this thread. Might be a good time to read John's OP.;)

We're not missing the point on anything. You're the one missing the point. The point is your carry gun is not for show and tell.

You shouldn't be drawing your loaded handgun and fiddling it with it anywhere! Safe gun handling is safe gun handling and unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling. Period.

At least the first three rules were violated, if not all four
 
Every single instance I mentioned is one I have experienced. With instruction to clear there, not outside or put it in the car. If anyone has lost the plot, it has been yourself.
No one mentioned putting your gun in the car.
AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN......this thread is about a customer drawing his loaded handgun in public, in a gun store and why that's not a good idea.



I am supposed to care you are an FFL...why exactly? Is your opinion about how to run a store somehow relevant to how one is run in South America (where I am guessing this incident happens) or even the other side of Texas? No. It isn't.
No one asked for you to care whether anyone is an FFL. I asked if you had a gun store and FFL because you wrote "You run your store how you want."....which made me question if you have any experience in the firearms industry.

And once again, you shy away from an easy question.



You asked if I thought the gun store had any liability in the ND. Liability is a legal and insurance term. Nothing about your question was related to firearms safety in different countries.
It doesn't matter whether the store is in Dallas, Rio de Janeiro or Tokyo........unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling.


In my worldly experience, firearms handling in other parts of the world is sorely lacking compared to the US.
Never been to a gun show in the USA?:rofl:


A question where no answer is satisfactory is, by definition, rhetorical.
Yet all your supposed "legitimate reasons" aren't really legitimate reasons are they. Thats why you think my question rhetorical.
And once again you fail, there IS a reason why a customer may not clear their firearm before entering a gun store. I'll eagerly await your guesses.



My entire point is there are times when clearing a firearm in a store can be done safely.
Yet as evidenced by the OP's video and others ........its often not done safely.



Not by every Tom, Dick, and Harry that comes in.
And the owner of your LGS knows which one you are? :scrutiny:
Are you the only one professionally enough? :rofl:


If I am told no, I do my clearing business outside or not at all.
Yet you aren't just every Tom, Dick or Harry!



Insurance plays a big role.
Well thank you Captain Obvious. That was mentioned several posts back.



Have you been to a gun show in the last few years? If you have more than likely they had you clear anything you brought in. The liability insurance to hold a gun show in a convention hall, civic center, or any place that rents to the public has sway. Same thing at a range. Having shooters only load when at their firing station, bench etc is safer from a liability standpoint than just walking in with firearms loaded.
Again, mentioned previously in this thread........and in Texas gun show operators do not let the attendees clear at the counter, but a police officer or safety committee member does. Any ammo in the gun when you present it?..............they keep it. Thats your penalty for showing up with a loaded gun.
 
Is it really so hard for some people to understand that clearing your gun in a store, with people milling around, is a very dumb thing to do? I wouldn't have thought we would need a video to demonstrate one of the many reasons that is a bad idea, no way you guys could be advocating for that, do you just like to argue?
 
We're not missing the point on anything. You're the one missing the point. The point is your carry gun is not for show and tell.
Good grief man........where in this thread have I written anything different?



You shouldn't be drawing your loaded handgun and fiddling it with it anywhere! Safe gun handling is safe gun handling and unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling. Period.
Pretty much what I been writing in every post.
 
No one asked for you to care whether anyone is an FFL. I asked if you had a gun store and FFL because you wrote "You run your store how you want."....which made me question if you have any experience in the firearms industry.

And once again, you shy away from an easy question.

Having an FFL or not has no basis on unsafe gun handling. In a store or not. You just want to feel somehow better or superior about yourself. To answer your inane question. No I am not an FFL. An answer that has no basis in this discussion. No matter how you try to justify it.

It doesn't matter whether the store is in Dallas, Rio de Janeiro or Tokyo........unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling.

Handling in other parts of the world is entirely different than here. I have been to gun shows and gun shops in Jalalabad. Moscow. Lahore. Ibadan. You think our firearms handling is bad? Here? Because of rednecks and new owners? You would have an aneurysm in any of those places if you saw how they handled firearms. Their standards of safety are not the same. Claiming so is just outright ignorance on your part.

Well thank you Captain Obvious. That was mentioned several posts back.
Typical of your responses thus far. No one is as great/knowledgeable/trained/as good as selling pew pews to dumb dumbs as you are. I was answering another member's question. That had nothing to do with you. Yet you somehow brought it upon yourself to respond in an attempt to be insulting. *Golf clap*

And the owner of your LGS knows which one you are? :scrutiny:Are you the only one professionally enough?

I never claimed to be special. Only one that brought up status was you, Mr FFL.

no way you guys could be advocating for that, do you just like to argue?
Some people have nothing better to do. And I have been guilty of that for the past couple hours. Fini. Just another pompous addition to the ignore list.
 
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Having an FFL or not has no basis on unsafe gun handling. In a store or not. You just want to feel somehow better or superior about yourself. To answer your inane question. No I am not an FFL. An answer that has no basis in this discussion. No matter how you try to justify it.
While you may feelings of inadequacy because you are not an FFL, I assure you I don't feel one bit superior because I am.
Again, I asked because you wrote "You run your store how you want." ........that could mean you have a store and run yours differently.

If you want to feel superior to all the little people an FFL only costs $200 for your first three years. Surely one's sense of superiority and the adulation of millions worldwide is worth that paltry $200?:rofl:



Handling in other parts of the world is entirely different than here. I have been to gun shows and gun shops in Jalalabad. Moscow. Lahore. Ibadan. You think our firearms handling is bad? Here? Because of rednecks and new owners? You would have an aneurysm in any of those places if you saw how they handled firearms. Their standards of safety are not the same. Claiming so is just outright ignorance on your part.
I'm sensing a reading comprehension problem, 'cause I haven't made any claims or comments about USA vs the World in gun handling skills. I just mentioned "It doesn't matter whether the store is in Dallas, Rio de Janeiro or Tokyo........unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling." Yet you seem to think I'm making a claim that "their standards of gun safety" are the same. Frankly sir, what part of unsafe gun handling is unsafe gun handling do you not get? I don't care if you've fondled guns in Pyongyang or Paducah....it doesn't matter in the least.






Just another pompous addition to the ignore list.
:rofl:
 
Who advocated that?

Assuming I do is just the same. There is a time, place, and method to clearing a firearm inside a store. If there is no posted policy, ask first. Something not done in the incident video. I treat it the same way as dry firing in a store to check a trigger. Some stores really don't want you to. So I ask. If the answer is no, I don't dry fire. Same with clearing. It really is no skin off my teeth if I am told no clearing/dry firing/inspecting by an employee.
 
Assuming I do is just the same. There is a time, place, and method to clearing a firearm inside a store. If there is no posted policy, ask first. Something not done in the incident video. I treat it the same way as dry firing in a store to check a trigger. Some stores really don't want you to. So I ask. If the answer is no, I don't dry fire. Same with clearing. It really is no skin off my teeth if I am told no clearing/dry firing/inspecting by an employee.

Agreed.
 
Again, I wrote "Ask the plaintiffs attorney if the location is immaterial."

"Location" matters in that its expected that loaded firearms are in use at a gun range. The gun counter at Cabelas? Oh heck no."
The context being a negligent discharge is more likely at a gun range where the operation of loaded firearms is expected and the purpose of a gun range.
vs
A negligent discharge in a gun store showroom where display and handling should be limited to unloaded firearms.


Who said anything about the gun being 'in use at cabelas gun counter?
No one.
I wrote: "Location" matters in that its expected that loaded firearms are in use at a gun range. The gun counter at Cabelas? Oh heck no."
Surely you understand that it means loaded firearms should not be in use, displayed or handled at the gun counter.



Do you consider clearing a gun to be 'in use'?
Do you?
 
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