Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Redlg155, Dec 22, 2012.
I appreciate the merits of that side of it. I am just unhappy about it I guess.
I had 5 in stock last wed. and they were the normal below book prices and 1 guy took 3 and on thur one guy took the last 2. had a person consign 3 of them on fri and 2 of them were gone within 2 hours for 850 and 1100.
I will get a smith in on thursday and who knows after that what I should ask. The rifle list around 800 so I will think about the price when the time comes. Did sell 1 RRA stripped lower to a good cust for $10 under list and locked all the others in the safe and thats where they live for now.
As far as ar mags? had usgi ones on sale for $10 till sat afternoon and just pulled them off the shelf. only sold about 12 or so of them all week. have about 300 of them left. may just take them to a show and get rid of them and keep a few for the regular custs at the shop.
I don't use P-mags, but the local PX has them for 13.99 right now. Their demand DROPPED due to the Corps banning their use on the qualification ranges here. Maybe I should pick them up? I use GI mags that cost me $0.00. I have a couple large boxes full of them. I am good for the "panic."
Your point is quite valid, and what CTD and other businesses do is just part of the game.
But it would be nice if those who scarf up boxes of primers and multiple jugs of powder had the intention of personal use, versus the small minority who simply create area shortages in order to make a profit at a gun show.
I bought my first AR from a local sporting goods chain store on Tuesday, after comparison shopping on Monday. Usually well stocked LGS did not have any I liked, they either had low end or high end, nothing in the middle. To make a long story short I was in above mentioned LGS on Mon, Tues, and Fri. On Monday they were busy, still had lots of stock (even mark down sale tags on some AR's), Tuesday I came back after buying the AR at the Sporting Goods store to get some PMAG's etc, bought the last 2 new PMAGS they had in stock marked $19.99, they had hundreds of used metal magazines though at $9-$15, place was busy, several people in the process of buying, AR's on the wall had thinned out in the 18 hours since I was last there. Went back in Friday afternoon, after my lunch break (on the way to lunch there was no way to get into their parkinglot), store was crowded, lots of people buying, they had 1 AR and 1AK on the wall with "display only" tags hanging on them, used magazines now measured in dozens were now all marked $49.99
I have a couple of local gun shops that are still very reasonable with their pricing. One of them has a batch of lowers coming in that is they are pre-selling for $90 each (my lips are sealed on that). Very nice owner and employees, for the most part they do not jack up the prices like others have been doing.
But, I'm betting the same people who are arguing the "supply-demand" argument, defending shops for selling at extreme prices, would be calling for the heads of gas stations that raise their per gallon price just as radically when a major storm hits.
The inventory they had in stock when this buying frenzy hit was bought at prices that allowed a decent return on investment. I don't know of any gun store that could remain in business long buying high and selling low. And I don't begrudge them making a decent profit on sales. But gouging buyers because there's a high demand will be remembered.
So will it be vindictive to boycott such shops when things calm down, if they ever do?
I'm seeing people offer guns for sale on "buy/trade" boards at excessive prices, and posting a "don't complain" edict along with their ad. Maybe I'm just old school, but I was raised to believe you don't screw over people just because you can.
As the days continue to roll on with no foreseeable drop in demand, the distributors are flat running out of guns, mags and ammo. A lot of gun shop shelves are now stocked only with consignment items and owner's/employee's personal guns as semi auto rifles go, and they're selling private mag and ammo stashes. As such, the prices are going to be higher than normal stock. Much higher.
I agree with people who find it unethical to hyper-inflate normal stock, but it's a different story when the normal stock is gone and cannot be replenished. It then becomes a matter of whether privately owned stuff that wasn't for sale is worth more to the current owner or the prospective buyer.
No, just uncomprehending of how supply and demand work. And, it should go without saying, you'd only hurt yourself anyway.
Don't screw people over?
How about..."I have this AR that I like. I would be willing to sell it, but only for $X,XXX. If anyone's willing to pay me $X,XXX, they may have it, otherwise I'll keep it?"
Doesn't sound like anyone's screwing anyone else over there. Someone with $X,XXX in their pocket may get themselves a very nice rifle. Win -- Win.
How exactly is it screwing someone over? That would imply that they have some initial claim to my property and that by not giving it to them at their desired price, I'm slighting them. You're looking at this from the wrong angle.
Here's the correct starting point: I own something. It's mine. I will keep it if I choose. On the other hand, if you can make it worth my while to part with my property, you are free to try. If you are unable or unwilling to do something that I deem worth the trade, it will just stay mine. And someone else may come along and do what you were unwilling.
There's no such thing as an "excessive price". There's the price I am willing to part with my property for and there's the price someone else is willing to pay to get what I have. A sale happens where those two prices meet. No one is being screwed. It's just an agreement between two adults to trade value for value. Anyone not participating in the sale has no say in what is right or wrong about it.
Would you hire me to mow your lawn every week for a year for $1,000,000 total? No? Are you unable or unwilling to give me that much for mowing your lawn? Would I be screwing you over if I demanded that much for mowing it? So don't hire me.
Would you hire me to mow your lawn every week for a year for $1 total? Are you concerned about that fact that it would then be you screwing me over for paying me so little for something of much higher value? Would you be taking advantage of me? If I think so, I won't let you hire me.
How do we settle this? If I charge too much to do it, I'm screwing you over and you don't want the deal. If you pay too little, you're screwing me over and I don't want to make the deal. How about we just find the highest price I'll work for and the lowest price you're willing to pay. If the two prices match, we have a deal. If not, we part ways.
I've got a firm grasp on the "supply and demand" deal. I'm also aware that our country in my youth looked down on people who were considered thieves and scoundrels. And loudly proclaimed them for what they were, to warn people off of making deals with them. But now, we're seeing people demand those who would warn the uninitiated off, remain silent, to not interfere. Usually citing the tired excuse of "supply and demand", or "it's the American way to make a profit."
I'm a collector of M-1 Carbines, and anybody who has collected them for even a small amount of time knows there are people who buy "repro" parts from China, and remark them to make them appear to be legitimate USGI parts. And it's a common practice to point out the cheats to new owners in the field. It's a common practice to call out those who try to sell fake parts as well.
But you're comfortable with watching someone sell a rifle that could be bought for $800.00 a few weeks back for double and triple that price NOW? And never utter a word? Maybe that's what's wrong with this country, if YOU get screwed over, you're angry. If someone else does, well, they were lazy, didn't do due diligence, and deserve what happened to them.
May God help us! It just seems a poor way to bring newer folks into the shooting sports to me. They may not realize it right off, but in due time, they'll learn how many folks stood by silently and watched them get screwed. Oh, but that's not getting screwed, you claim. That's just a "meeting of the minds" on a price.
Remind me to NEVER deal with you!
Do you understand the difference between the fraud of remarking Chinese parts and the open asking price for an item in short supply?
Gasoline was .99 cents a gallon only about 10 years ago. Is it gouging now that gas is 3.00?
No one is making anyone pay $1500 for an AR he could have had 2 months ago for 900. No one is making anyone do anything. It is entirely voluntary.
I am selling 20rd boxes of Federal XM193 for 18.65/box. Three months ago it was 7.99. If I had them at 7.99 someone would have bought every box and since I can't get any more of it I would be out of stock. How does that help anyone? At least now they have the choice of buying or not buying.
I work for a dealer who has 13 small stores. We have considerably higher overhead than single store businesses or Internet vendors.
Inventory is basically smoked. We have 0 ARs or AKs in any store. The owners are trying to get more, just like every other dealer in the country.
We have less supply, incredible demand, and are fighting for whatever wholesalers get from the manufacturers.
This is an uncomfortable time.
Absolutely! This is AMERICA. The free market sets prices (or is SUPPOSED to) based on how many people want a particular item and how many of that item are availalbe. If you want to live in a place where an item cannot sell for whatever folks are willing to pay for it, but must be sold at some price set by ... well, whom? Who ever said an AR was SUPPOSED to sell for $800 anyway? Who set THAT price and why are you ok with THAT price but not $2,400? ... then you may be free to try any of the various countries that have used economic models where the government controls prices and tells factories what to make. Or you could simply read a little history and see how that's worked out for them.
Watched them "get screwed?" Because they had money they wanted to spend and someone was willing to give up an AR-15 to them in VERY uncertain times for enough compensation?
If those shooters don't want to pay the current MARKET price, then tell them to hold their horses and wait for a few months for the market to settle back down. You want to "save them" from "getting screwed" (i.e.: buying what they want when they want it at a higher than historical average price) then tell them to wait a bit and buy when the panic subsides.
Or you sell off your own collection at whatever price you think is "RIGHT" and save the new shooters of the world on your own dime. Very generous of you.
So...if you want to buy a bushel of blue crabs for a big 4th of July feast, are you being CHEATED if you have to pay $200 because the supply is down and the demand is up? You could easily buy that bushel for $120-130 some other time of the year. I guess that dealer is ripping you off, right? Those crabs, like a new rifle right this minute, are a LUXURY item ...but hey, you're being SCREWED if you can't buy them when you want them at a price someone else paid some other time, no?
Sounds like you have a firm grasp and you HATE It. This type of "grasp" of market forces is one of the reasons we have so many entitlements and taxes today. Everyone should be able to get whatever they WANT for a price they consider "fair" regardless of whether the supply and demand are balanced at that price point or not.
I don't really understand these threads when they pop up. Supply and demand is a simple concept; surely you know why demand is outstripping supplies now. If your local sellers were/are selling under the market price (old prices), someone else will buy their inventory and re-sell it at the market value or just take it off the market.
A few years ago, silver was $5/oz. Now it's $30. I really want to pay a "fair price" of $5/oz. Does that make everyone else a filthy capitalist swine?
By the way, do you have any AR-15s you would let go for $500? How about $5,000? 10 years from now, you may look back to the end of 2012 and kick yourself for not buying that last AR you saw for $2,500 or whatever because it was truly a market bargain. Hopefully you'll look back in a year and be able to laugh off not getting caught up in the buying craze because supply overtook demand again and the political hand-wringing produced nothing thanks to firearm owners' and allies' activism.
That's my plan. Hope you are right.
Free market economics (and the price rises and falls that come with it) are as much a part of our country as the right to bear arms that we have been trumpeting so loudly lately.
Look, I am feeling the pressure right now like everyone else. I have two AR lowers that I planned to build out the first part of this year. Now I can't decide whether to rush to buy up parts kits, stocks, mags, uppers and the like at premium prices, try to stockpile ammo at premium prices, or try to sell off a couple of the mags I do have or my current gun or my stripped lowers at a premium profit.
In the end, if you're mad at the so-called "price gouging" the likeliest explanation is that you're really just mad that *you're* being expected to pay the premium prices right now. It's frustrating, but we should all get over it.
Ride it out, or write bigger checks. That's our side of the free market system, you know?
I think Sam hit the nail on the head with this one. It's all how you decide. Is a rifle a Luxury item or is it a necessity?
If we label a weapon as a LUXURY item we can justify a price increase. On a different note, folks would be angry if the only gas station left after a natural disaster started selling gas at $10.00 a gallon, or if the only building supply place charged $100 a sheet of plywood after a storm. If I'm not mistaken, possibly illegal. The same laws of supply and demand apply, but with a different twist.
Hmmm...let's see...a very commonly available item up to the last week or two. Useful for various things, but none of them crucial to existence -- or at least any MORE crucial to existence than they were two weeks ago when they would have fit more palatably into someone's budget. An item which does 99% exactly the same function as do hundreds of other similar designs not particularly subject to the current price spikes.
Yup...that's a luxury purcase, no question.
Even if that was not the case, when there aren't many of something to be had, you have to pay more than the next guy in order to procure that thing. If you can't or won't pay more, HE gets it and you wait. Right now, the next guy will pay $2,400 (or whatever) for an AR-15 rifle. If you won't pay that much, he gest it. If you'll pay $2,500 and he won't, YOU get it and that's just his bad luck.
It isn't complicated, and it isn't evil.
One thing many seem to forget is that the seller's replacement costs may also be going through the roof, so he needs to reprise accordingly to be able to buy more inventory. Happens all the time. If you bought a widget for $1 and sold it for $2, and the next time you order, they will be costing you $2 to replace, you will need to up your current price else you would be losing money. Following the same % of margin, you'll be raising your new price to $4, thus making you look like a gouger
I don't know if my LGS kept their prices. By the time I went in on a recon mission they didn't really have anything left. I imagine they kept their prices.
1 week after the election
1 week after the Connecticut loser
I posted this on another THR thread.
This is what the LGS is up against. The "right thing" is whatever the market will bear.
nice photos. what is the saying?? A picture is worth a thousand words?
My LGS PAC N Arms in Sanford, ME has been doing the right thing. Not changing his markup and keeping his loyalty to his customers. Gotta love it.
And where, pray tell, is that?
Separate names with a comma.