Your moment of truth

[Stumper]

I always enjoy the bear gun/dangerous game guns discussions. They give us a chance to excersise our imaginations and experience a little vicarious excitement. They also get some opinions flowing pretty hard. Going beyond the theoretical isn't possible for many of us but I suspect there are some real life stories out there. Here is mine.
I have held a firearm through some tense and exciting moments but only once have I fired a gun in self defense. It wasn't a grizzly, a mountain lion, meth head nor a rabid raccoon. I faced the most widely available potentially dangerous game in the lower 48 states-- a wounded feral hog. I unwisely went after a big boar that someone else had hit too far back with a .243 . In my hand I had a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 spl. The wounded hog broke cover and charged me from about 30-35 feet. I fired 4 shots. I remember the hog running toward me head up and grunting/woofing. I remember the gun bucking in my hands. I don't remember a sight picture. I did not stop the hog. He hit me, knocked me down and cut me, then he turned and ran. The guys up on the bank with the rifle hit him twice with the. 243 and finished him. Sooooo my dangerous game defensive shooting was a FAILURE. I had one more round in the gun. IF he had tried to press the attack further perhaps I could have used it to good effect. Where did my bullets go? I wish I had the opportunity to investigate and perform a necropsy. The outfitter was insistent that I get some medical attention. (The boar's right tusk was broken so I really just had a bloody scrape on my leg rather than a serious wound.) A cursory examination of the animal showed multiple wounds to the body (but it had been shot 3 times with the .243) and a 44 caliber hole in the right ear.
My take away..... despite lots of practice with aimed fire using handguns I think I was unable to focus on anything but the threat. I survived with minimal damage but I didn't unleash any "stopping power". I still carry firearms for self defense and I practice using the sights.....but I am cognizant of how difficult it may be to use them in a real life situation. I would love to read some of your stories.

 

[tuckerdog1]

In that short a distance, I'm surprised you were able to get 5 shots off, Animal probably covered that in a couple seconds. Not even enough time to be scared. Glad you weren't hurt bad.

 

[Stumper]

Only four but it was all pretty fast....

 

[tuckerdog1]

Only four but it was all pretty fast....

Thought the Bulldog was a 6 shooter. Learning every day.

 

[trackskippy]

1 hit out of 4, looks like the old 25% stat for revolver shootings is holding about true.

I think close range, fast, unsighted shooting, especially with movement involved, is lost on those who have never done it, nor do it regularly in practice. Everyone is a crack shot when shooting slowly with the sights from a rest, and that seems to be the basis for most peoples handgun skills.

Glad you came out of it OK and got a piece of him anyway. Has it changed your thinking on how you prepare for handgun shooting for this and other sorts of things?

 

[Speedo66]

A fast moving dangerous target charging at you, adrenaline flowing, I think your shooting was probably pretty normal for that situation. I'm always amazed at how quick animals can move.

Unless you've practiced that particular scenario, you have no experience with it. Good solid hits would probably have been pure luck.

Glad you sustained no serious injuries.

 

[FL-NC]

I train 2 times a month in the tactics I learned while serving in the military. I wish I was as fast and accurate as I was when I was on active duty or serving as a contractor overseas, and I COULD get there again if I had access to the ammunition required to do so and the time to spend on the range making it happen. That said, I consider myself to still be a pretty decent shooter. I have had to use a handgun in the past (not while engaging in shooting sports) and every time the 9mm pistol and the tactics, techniques and procedures that were honed during our extensive training were sufficient for the given situation. I am confident with the Glock 23 (40) I carry hunting here (where a hog is the most dangerous critter I may encounter) and the Glock 21 (45) I carried bear hunting in Maine.

 

[Stumper]

Trackskippy, You ask if it changed my thinking and training. A little. My first impulse is to align the sights and place the shot. Having experienced the way that can go out the window so easily I think more about "pointability" . I don't burn much ammo practicing point shooting but I do check to see how naturally my carry choices shoot where I look. The other thing I gravitate toward is high visibility front sights. Square black Patridge type sights are best for groups on paper but a high contrast sight is easier to see so maybe it will get used under stress. The stainless front blade and rear notch on that Bulldog were about the worst possible choice for attention grabbing contrast.
Mostly, I am just aware that what we think we will do isn't necessarily what we actually do in the moment of truth.

 

[briansmithwins]

Trackskippy, You ask if it changed my thinking and training. A little. My first impulse is to align the sights and place the shot. Having experienced the way that can go out the window so easily I think more about "pointability" . I don't burn much ammo practicing point shooting but I do check to see how naturally my carry choices shoot where I look. The other thing I gravitate toward is high visibility front sights. Square black Patridge type sights are best for groups on paper but a high contrast sight is easier to see so maybe it will get used under stress. The stainless front blade and rear notch on that Bulldog were about the worst possible choice for attention grabbing contrast.
Mostly, I am just aware that what we think we will do isn't necessarily what we actually do in the moment of truth.

I've been steadily installing the Trijicon HD sights on my pistols. They really pop in daylight and remain useable as it gets darker and darker until the tritium takes over completely.

As for the OP's situation not having time to find the sights when you really need to isn't a new problem. In Shoot to Live* Fairbairn & Sykes advocate using the entire pistol as a sight and pressing the trigger when the pistol occludes the target. (I am not doing their method justice, the book explains it much better)
The way I think about it is you distance dictates time. At touching distance you need to be very fast to get rounds on target but you don't need fine alignment on your sights. At long range you need fine sight alignment but you have time to use your sights. It's down to individual practice to know at what range do you need to transition from reflexive pointing to just acquiring the front sight to getting a sight picture with front and rear. Point shooting a pistol is a skill and takes practice to learn and to remain proficient with. I see a lot of people practicing fine sight alignment at longer ranges but very few practicing front sight only and pointing w/o using the sights.

BSW

* ebook https://www.amazon.com/SHOOTING-LIVE-One-Hand-Gun-Fairbairn-ebook/dp/B08TC6HQ27/ref=sr_1_1?

 

[JFrank]

Only four but it was all pretty fast....

I mentioned on another thread how fast a bear can run that it was almost shocking to witness.

 

[Mike J]

It wasn't wounded but I have encountered a hog in the woods. He popped out from behind a tree coming towards me. I didn't have a handgun in my hands but a scoped rifle. He put a tree between us & went the other way. I was glad he did. I'm not too sure I could have shot before he got to me. Before that I never realized how fast they can move. Glad .you made it through okay.

 

[wcwhitey]

Front sight, trigger, front sight , trigger, bang! Ergonomics play a big role. Good grips, ones that help point naturally help. A Bulldog with factory ammo is not a easy recoiling gun, shot recovery isn’t easy. You can spray and pray with a 5 shot. It’s also different shooting at a target running fast low to the ground. Target is not huge, head is moving, hard to focus on.

On the street from my experience distances are contact or very close to being contact distance. The front sight at contact distance is all that is needed. The more distance the more alignment becomes necessary.

My story, in a tree stand in the Great Dismal Swamp, Virginia. Swamp Black Bear was being chased by dogs that were meant for deer. Now if you know swamp deer, they are small, only grow to their environment. A full grown one does not get very big or tall and on the ground they look like Cubs. Pygmy Bears they called them, same with the deer, small compared to other regions. This one has inexperienced hunting dogs on its tail and was very distressed. It decided my tree stand was a safer place. Having nothing but a H&R single shot 20 gauge w/buckshot I had to make a choice. I yelled, threw my canteen at it but it started climbing the tree. Blast to the side of the face/neck , it ran off into a hole in the brush no taller than a foot, never to be seen again. Spent the rest of day being debriefed by the Base Game Warden. I am sure I hit it, never got to see to what extent. A tiny blood trail, not much. Hunted the rest of the deer season it was never found. Never hunted again without a handgun handy and dislike hunting deer with dogs. Things happen, had a buddy charged at by a wounded buck, a finishing gun was handy. Things happen, on the street and in the woods.

I think I’m both situations the first shot is most important. Once filled with Adrenalin I can see how trying to shoot quickly on a moving target would be close to impossible at the speed in which a hog or bear travels.

 

[BigBlue 94]

Only once have I encountered dangerous game. And of the 2 legged variety. Its 2 AM, my buddy and his GF are camping with me in BFE Kansas. Not another soul around. All of a sudden a group of six ruffians invade our campsite, drunk as skunks. They decided our campsite was the route they would take to go swimming in the lake and were making a ton of noise. Tucked the glock 10mm in my boot and we confronted them, urging them to leave. 15 minutes and one drunk lady taking a pee while still yelling at us later, they slowly left. The 10mm never left my boot thank god.

 

[trackskippy]

Trackskippy, You ask if it changed my thinking and training. A little. My first impulse is to align the sights and place the shot. Having experienced the way that can go out the window so easily I think more about "pointability" . I don't burn much ammo practicing point shooting but I do check to see how naturally my carry choices shoot where I look. The other thing I gravitate toward is high visibility front sights. Square black Patridge type sights are best for groups on paper but a high contrast sight is easier to see so maybe it will get used under stress. The stainless front blade and rear notch on that Bulldog were about the worst possible choice for attention grabbing contrast.
Mostly, I am just aware that what we think we will do isn't necessarily what we actually do in the moment of truth.

Point or instinctive shooting should be a part of everyone's skill set, and is well worth the burning of ammo in practice.

The whole trick is to get comfortable shooting without the sights, but its not at all "unsighted" shooting. Your brain is just using other cues to make the hits. And you already actually shoot that way in a lot of respects, you just dont realize it.

Brians link to Shoot to Live is a good place to start. A lot of it is just slight modification of what you probably already do when you shoot, and adding actual experience to it.

The other thing that comes with it is moving "while" you shoot. Be it a bullet or a boar, you dont want to be standing on the X where its heading. Moving offline, drawing (if you already haven't) and shooting as you go is the way to go, and dont stop to shoot.

Moving while you shoot when you shoot in practice also gets you used to shooting in all sorts of ways you dont normally shoot when standing still, and you learn to just go with the flow and adapt as you go. If you can add a moving target to the mix, all the better.

The whole point is to try and be ahead of the curve so if and when something happens, its not the first time you're trying to do it and it comes fairly naturally. It might not be the exact thing, but you'll have done enough other things in practice working on things that you wont get stuck in your loop and vapor lock, you'll move and shoot and figure it out as you go and be more comfortable in doing so.

As with any kind of shooting or anything else, if you want to get good, the more you shoot, the better youll get, and you want to try and get to that level where you dont have to think about the shooting part when you do.

Pretty much all my shooting practice from about 7 yards or so and in, is fast, target focus, rapid/burst fire shooting, while moving. I rarely consciously use the sights, and if I do, its the dots on them, especially the front sight. Mostly Im just shooting over top of the gun.

One thing I do for the guns I cant get three dot night sights on, is put some bright nail polish on the front sight. Works really well on SS guns that dont have a lot of contrast, but works well on everything too. Helps your brain see it too when you're focus is on something else.

 

[WisBorn]

@Stumper thank you for sharing your story.
I have not had a handgun defense experience, but wounded animals are dangerous. Many years ago ago I watched a mature whitetail buck pick up a buddy and throw him out of the way while bow hunting.

I have also had a few other wounded deer experiences.
Thanks again for the post.

 

[Speedo66]

The other thing I gravitate toward is high visibility front sights. Square black Patridge type sights are best for groups on paper but a high contrast sight is easier to see so maybe it will get used under stress. The stainless front blade and rear notch on that Bulldog were about the worst possible choice for attention grabbing contrast.

A little florescent orange or green nail polish on the front sight will work wonders.

I was taught a technique called "quick kill" in the Army, you just throw your rifle up to your shoulder and look over the top of the barrel, not looking at sights, both eyes open. Worked surprising well out to 50 yards or so, and was very fast. I've actually successfully used it hunting deer a couple of times.

 

[Pat Riot]

Definitely not the same, but I encountered a mountain lion while hunting deer. I was walking a game trail when I had an eerie feeling of being watched. I was. There was a mountain lion crouched behind a bush about 20-25 feet away. The only reason I saw it was because it blinked. All I saw of it was a large yellow-green eye and a small portion of the side of its head.
All I was carrying was a sporterized 1917 model Remington in .270 Winchester. I did not have a round in the chamber yet as I was making my way to the area I planned to hunt.
Long story short, I backed down the trail until out of sight of the bush then jacked a round in the chamber and turned and made my way back to my truck at a very nervous walking speed.
I vowed never to hunt that area again without a handgun.
Ironically enough, that same hunting trip was at the tail end of deer season and the start of Fall Turkey season and Quail season. While hunting with my shotgun loaded with no. 6 shot I encountered the biggest bear track I have ever seen in the wild. 11” across.
This solidified my resolve to always have not only a handgun, but an adequate handgun when traipsing around in the woods.

Both these events occurred near Big Bear, CA. Carrying a loaded handgun wasn’t illegal but did come with scrutiny from CA DFG officers. After that I said “Screw scrutiny, I am carrying a handgun” and I did.

 

[Agsalaska]

I carry a 629 in 44 mag when I hunt in the lower 48(and in Alaska). But I am starting to think that the right answer is some kind of hard cast bullet in 9mm with a higher capacity, like Buffalo Bore.

I have had a similar encounter with wild hogs though they didn't get to me. But I shot one from 10 feet with a Rem 760 in 30-06. Shot at two more from 20-30 yards. There were about 15 of them and I walked up on them. I remember thinking on the way home that night that if I didn't have my rifle I would have rather had my Glock 19 with hard cast hole pokers.

Understanding this is off topic so I won't expand further, but bear spray is also a very useful tool in grizzly country.

 

[Stumper]

A little florescent orange or green nail polish on the front sight will work wonders.

I was taught a technique called "quick kill" in the Army, you just throw your rifle up to your shoulder and look over the top of the barrel, not looking at sights, both eyes open. Worked surprising well out to 50 yards or so, and was very fast. I've actually successfully used it hunting deer a couple of times.

I have found it works best to paint the front sight white first then add the color....the color "pops" much better with white under it. I prefer orange with a stainless rear and green on a gun with a blued rear sight.
I really wish that I had had more opportunity to poke around the carcass and discover if there were any .44 holes besides the one in the ear. I find that I can usually do pretty well shooting over the gun without focusing on the sights....but not so much on that occasion.

 

[WYO]

It’s also different shooting at a target running fast low to the ground. Target is not huge, head is moving, hard to focus on.

With a fast critter that is lower to the ground than the shooter, the shooter has to lead it or the shot will not hit where the shooter is aiming. When aiming at a person or a large animal that is at the shooter's height, where the shot is straight against a charging target, there is no need to lead. With a target that is almost one's height and charging, the choice may be to lead, run, or speed crouch to the point where it is a straight shot.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Never had to use my sidearm in defense, but had it at the ready many times. It's always scary to think of the difference between "game day and practice".

Mostly for angry moose has been what I run into. Not as scary as bear, even though statistically I think I'm more likely to be killed by moose. The most eerie is hearing wolves in the distance and not knowing where they are.

But, speaking of moose, this is what I get to deal with daily. Can't even pee my dog. This is currently my backyard about 10 minutes ago.

 

[crstrode]

Next time, aim at the ear and you might get the piggie square in the noggin.

 

[ECVMatt]

I have seen a few things in the woods.

I came face to face with a grizzly bear in MT when we were hunting black bears. It was pouring rain which limited visibility and sound. We both rounded a corner at the same time and both stopped in shock. I was about 16 at the time and it definitely got my attention. The bear was about 15 yards from me. Thankfully he just kind of hoped off the trail and went on his way. I had my 30/06 but did not need it.

I was also stalked by a mountain lion in CA. We were pig hunting and walking back to camp. One of the guys with me turned around for some reason and there was a mountain lion about 25 yards from us. We yelled and it left in a hurry. We walked back to where it was and then followed its tracks back up the road. It followed us for about 50 yards and we had no idea. They are truly silent when they want to be.

The only time I ever fired at a toothy beast trying to eat me was a good sized hog that we were chasing with dogs and could not catch. We split up and I unfortunately found it first. It was out of the brush and nearly on to me before I could pull my gun. Right before I was about to take a good thrashing, one of our catch dogs came out of nowhere and saved my bacon. He got cut up pretty good, but I was able to put a round from my 45 Colt, Ruger Bisley into him and put him down. It all happened in about 1/4 of the time it took me to type this. We retired that dog shortly after this trip because he was getting older, but if you have never experienced a good bond with a hunting dog, it is a surreal experience. I made a point to keep that fella in high protein dog food for the rest of his life. That dog would have died for me in a heartbeat, and did take a couple of good sticks before I could get a safe kill shot. Old Yeller was no joke.



Anyways, isn't this why we go to the woods in the first place, for a little bit of uncertainty and fun? I enjoy being aware, being responsible for my own safety, and experiencing nature as a participant not merely an observer.

Have fun and be safe!

 

[wvfarrier]

I mentioned on another thread how fast a bear can run that it was almost shocking to witness.

I do a lot of spot n stalk bear hunting with a bow and its INSANE how fast a black bear can run. Ive seen ine run down a coyote and another time saw one run down a whitetail doe

 

[Jonesy814]

Years ago, while deer hunting with my dad, we came across a mama black bear and 2 cubs. We were driving up a logging road. The bears were running alongside the road, maybe 30 or 40 yards back in the woods when first spotted. They were angled slightly towards the road, as if trying to get ahead of us to cross. My dad hit the gas to keep them from getting ahead of us. We were going over 35 mph, which was about how fast the bears were going, and remember, they were running cross country, jumping over downed tree trunks, weaving through the woods. After a hundred yards, Dad backed off as the poor road conditions were beating both us and the truck to pieces and the bears crossed 60 or 70 feet in front of us. On flat ground without obstacles I have no doubt they could have hit 40 mph