I am looking for some opinions or recommendations on a rifle and caliber that would be both legal for deer in Ohio and have reasonable recoil and other characteristics for youth hunting. I'm looking for something to get my 10 year old daughter started. Being from Pennsylvania, the usual go-to choice would be a .243 Winchester but that's not on the Ohio-legal list. I have not shot rifles in many of the calibers that are legal and my daughter is on the smaller side, so I have no reference here. She would be shooting from a supported rest or stand, but I'd like to avoid a situation where she's in a 100% rest/supported position because I want her to learn to manage recoil and movement. I don't have any objection to the older calibers as long as I can reasonably find cartridges (or reloading components) and I won't have to spend the next three years scouring gun shows for that one rifle that's up for sale occasionally. I also am not sure how I feel about using a .375 Magnum which seems to be the common answer around here.
Youth Caliber/Rifle for Ohio Deer
- Thread starter Airgead
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I reviewed the list, and there isn't anything close to a comparable caliber for .243 Winchester. It it was for you, I'd recommend the 444 Marlin, but that would be too much for your daughter. Your best options would be either a lever-action in 357 or 44 magnum. Both could get the job done. You'd just be shooting on the heavier end of the .357 or the lighter end of the .44.
I believe the Ruger American in 450 Bushmaster was designed specifically to meet Ohio's regulations. Those seem to be going over quite well. I'm not sure about recoil on those for a 10 year old however. If you choose bullets carefully I have no doubts about 357 mag. Inside of 100 yards they seem to be about the equal of typical 30-30 loads.
What don't you like about the 357? I'm not completely familiar with Ohio's hunting regs, so correct me if I'm too far off here. There's still a .44 magnum, both are available in a few configurations. Cva offers a single shot 44, idk if there's a compact model. The Rossi circuit judge in .44 or .357 might be something to look into. Obviously there are levergun options everywhere, but you could cut the stock down as needed for her lop, and be good to go, she may never grow long enough to need it back either, but if you do, it wouldn't be hard to just put a 3/4" spacer on. Personally I'd give the .357 a try, but there's one other option too....have you considered black powder/muzzleloader? You can load it down to .22 plinking loads, and run it as hard as you need to for game. There's tons of variety to choose from and you won't be lacking for firepower any more than you want to.
CoalTrain49
Member
Ruger sold a nice low recoil rifle in the 77/357. Those are still available here and there on the internet. I called Ruger yesterday about parts availability and they said about 2 years was the window for parts, after that they wouldn't be able to maintain those any longer. Maybe someone will machine the parts after Ruger parts are gone. I'm not sure if I would buy one now if I didn't already have one. I might buy a spring package and a firing pin while they still have some.
These are nice light little carbines and the stock should fit a 10 yo. Plenty of good hunting ammo out there.
These are nice light little carbines and the stock should fit a 10 yo. Plenty of good hunting ammo out there.
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Airgead;
It'd be helpful if you could let us know what the legal calibers are. I'm in Montana & have no idea what that situation might be. But, if it's a rifle, then does it have to be a straight-walled pistol type cartridge? Then a great deal would depend on the range you'd expect to take a deer at. Remember though, that the Hornady Leverevolution bullets can now give you a much improved B/C and all the benefits thereof. Which, I would think, would make the .357 in a gun with a stock that fits her, a very good possibility.
900F
It'd be helpful if you could let us know what the legal calibers are. I'm in Montana & have no idea what that situation might be. But, if it's a rifle, then does it have to be a straight-walled pistol type cartridge? Then a great deal would depend on the range you'd expect to take a deer at. Remember though, that the Hornady Leverevolution bullets can now give you a much improved B/C and all the benefits thereof. Which, I would think, would make the .357 in a gun with a stock that fits her, a very good possibility.
900F
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Ah, probably posting a list would have been helpful. In Ohio, it has to be a straight-walled cartridge and on a fixed list of approved calibers. Here's the relevant section from ODNR:
The thought about a muzzeloader isn't bad. I hadn't considered that because I don't shoot that myself. I've wanted to try that and maybe that would be a good path - we learn it together.
I didn't think to look at Rossi and I didn't know CVA made centerfire rifles. I'll look into both. I don't want to get into something like the Ruger 77 - I already have one rifle where brass and some parts are getting scarce.
Straight-walled cartridge rifles in the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .450 Marlin, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50- 90, .50-100, .50-110, and .500 Smith & Wesson.
My hesitation about the .357 Magnum is that it seems as if shot placement is really critical with that. Not that I plan to skimp on that with my daughter by any means, but I've heard it's not a forgiving cartridge if you're off by even just a little because it's really at the low end of an acceptable whitetail cartridge. Maybe I'm way off on that. Unfortunately the .450 Bushmaster isn't on the approved list.
The thought about a muzzeloader isn't bad. I hadn't considered that because I don't shoot that myself. I've wanted to try that and maybe that would be a good path - we learn it together.
I didn't think to look at Rossi and I didn't know CVA made centerfire rifles. I'll look into both. I don't want to get into something like the Ruger 77 - I already have one rifle where brass and some parts are getting scarce.
kBob
Member
Airgead,
I think you are underrating the .357 Magnum. From a rifle it gives very little up to a .30-30 as far as deer dropping out to 100 to 125 yards. A good lever-action also allows a quick second (or if necessary third) shot. Some like the Marlins even do well with fairly light loaded .38 Special for plinking and basic marksmanship training for those that do not reload.
Buy a spare stock and have it done up in her length and given a decent butt pad or plate and keep the original for if she grows into it or you end up with the gun or you decide to sell it. If a scope is necessary the Marlins are easiest to scope.
The .357 Lever-actions also make fair decent home defense guns and many states let folks 18 and older keep a long gun that think handguns are evil for those under 21. Something to think about for when she leaves home.
I do like BP, but honestly for a novice deer hunter I would think the .357 Lever gun or discontinued Ruger bot action would be a better choice.
-kBob
I think you are underrating the .357 Magnum. From a rifle it gives very little up to a .30-30 as far as deer dropping out to 100 to 125 yards. A good lever-action also allows a quick second (or if necessary third) shot. Some like the Marlins even do well with fairly light loaded .38 Special for plinking and basic marksmanship training for those that do not reload.
Buy a spare stock and have it done up in her length and given a decent butt pad or plate and keep the original for if she grows into it or you end up with the gun or you decide to sell it. If a scope is necessary the Marlins are easiest to scope.
The .357 Lever-actions also make fair decent home defense guns and many states let folks 18 and older keep a long gun that think handguns are evil for those under 21. Something to think about for when she leaves home.
I do like BP, but honestly for a novice deer hunter I would think the .357 Lever gun or discontinued Ruger bot action would be a better choice.
-kBob
Out to 100 yards the 357 will do the job. A well constructed 158 gr , or heavier, will blow right thru on a broadside shot. Lengthwise it will penetrate at least to the paunch. The 30 30 made the blackpowder behemoths obsolete almost overnight and it is plenty for deer to 150 yards or better. The original load was a 160 great bullet at 1900 fps (advertised 1970 fps) in most carbines. The 357 is only a bit behind that.
Starter52
Member
Go with a .357 rifle or carbine.
The Rossi .357 lever gun is worth looking at. I've had one for 4 years. It fits a 5 foot shooter just fine. A good gun at a good price. The kids at camp love it.
I also have a Ruger 77/.357. The stock is not adjustable and the LOP is longer than the Rossi. It's ok for a shooter 5'2" or more.
A .357 will kill any deer in the Northeast.
The Rossi .357 lever gun is worth looking at. I've had one for 4 years. It fits a 5 foot shooter just fine. A good gun at a good price. The kids at camp love it.
I also have a Ruger 77/.357. The stock is not adjustable and the LOP is longer than the Rossi. It's ok for a shooter 5'2" or more.
A .357 will kill any deer in the Northeast.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
If she can handle the stout recoil of a 44 Magnum it would be a good choice. The next logical choice would be the .357 Magnum which is quite adequate for Ohio Whitetail. The Ohio laws changed after I sort of quit hunting but I actively hunted West Virginia using a Ruger 44 Mag and for 100 yards and closer it does drop them. The recoil is a little stout especially for a light weight class 10 year old, but as mentioned they aren't ten years old for long. 
A 44 Magnum if she can handle it and if not the .357 Magnum is a good choice and will bring down Ohio Whitetail without a problem despite what you may have heard to the contrary.
Ron
A 44 Magnum if she can handle it and if not the .357 Magnum is a good choice and will bring down Ohio Whitetail without a problem despite what you may have heard to the contrary.
Ron
Buddy is 12 for 12 with hot 180 gr handloads in Marlin .357 mag lever gun.
No movers, nothing past 100 yards. He waits for the perfect shot, then makes it.
He also has used .357 maximum, but says under 100 yds he doesn't need it.
.44 mag..............can always down load it or run .44 specials hot (if it meets the spec).
Indiana, .44 special works............have seen some nice bucks popped by kids using specials, under 50 yards.
No movers, nothing past 100 yards. He waits for the perfect shot, then makes it.
He also has used .357 maximum, but says under 100 yds he doesn't need it.
.44 mag..............can always down load it or run .44 specials hot (if it meets the spec).
Indiana, .44 special works............have seen some nice bucks popped by kids using specials, under 50 yards.
BrocLuno
Member
I'd go nice lever in 357
I would say that people who give bad reviews to a .357 on your lil Bambi deer are expecting too much shock and awe, pistol caliber bullets start larger in diameter than quite a few popular deer rifle cartridges. With a 2800-3200 fps bullet exploding hydrostatic shock all over the vitals and liquefying lungs, riflemen quickly decide that a hole over 1/3" in diameter punched clear through everything is not the same as a pseudo grenade until they get into large/dangerous game. With the .357 you'll get penetration, you may have to follow a bit of a blood trail, but you're still poking holes and letting blood out of important places. Shotgun slugs aren't my idea of ideal, especially for a first time deer hunter trying to memorize trajectory to vitals and not remember recoil. The 357 is forgiving and with the right rifle (here's where I prefer the circuit judge) you can practice with .38 loads all year too with a few weeks of full house loads, it's a repeater, allowing for a quick follow up but not as rapid as a lever, should help with reducing the idea of accuracy by volume. A muzzle loader for the reasons I've already given, is not the game it used to be, you can get ballistic tips/sst bullets and induce similar shock to a rifle wound albeit still not impact velocity of 2600+. If I weren't allowed to teach my kids with .243s and .260s etc I'd look hard at finding a used one, trying them out with a good several hours of practice and if it didn't look promising grab the circuit judge in .357.
Hoppes Love Potion
Member
I have a .357 Rossi 92 Trapper with the 16.1" barrel. The stock is really too short for an adult but should work well for a smaller person. The rifle is lightweight at 4.9 lbs but is very well built. The Rossi is a pussycat with .38 Specials and she would be able to shoot those all day. .357 Magnums have about 2x the recoil as the .38 Special, but it is still not excessive. My wife likes shooting Magnums and the rifle is extremely accurate, especially in her hands. The Rossi is also part of our home defense plan, and it's good having a rifle everyone is familiar with.
BrocLuno
Member
Bingo
Speedo66
Member
Buffalo Bore makes 180g hard cast flat nose cartridges that are pretty close to 30-30 ballistics out of a rifle length barrel. At the same time, .357 is pretty tame in a lever action, recoil wise.
As mentioned, Rossi carbines are pretty short, might be a good fit for your daughter.
As mentioned, Rossi carbines are pretty short, might be a good fit for your daughter.
Berger.Fan222
Member
Killed lots of deer with .357 bullets from rifles and pistols. Nothing marginal about it inside of 100 yards.
I would prefer the .357 Max in a custom contender to better accuracy and just a bit more range than the lever actions.
I would prefer the .357 Max in a custom contender to better accuracy and just a bit more range than the lever actions.
CoalTrain49
Member
I have a Ruger 77/357 and I've loaded just about every FMJ bullet Hornady makes for 357. You can safely load a 158 grain bullet up to 1500 fps (18" barrel). Out to 100 yards that bullet has plenty of energy for a small deer or hog. Of course a 30-30 or 243 would be a better choice but you don't have that option. I wouldn't consider a 44 mag. The recoil is more than a 30-30 and the benefits of a heavier larger dia. bullet just isn't there.
Your calibers are limited in straight walled cartridges. Everyone of those on that list has more recoil than a 357. There are lots of 357 rifles out there and plenty of good hunting loads. Get one and shoot it for awhile. Shoot a few telephone books at 100 yards and see for yourself how much energy it has. If you aren't satisfied have it rechambered to 357 maximum.
Your calibers are limited in straight walled cartridges. Everyone of those on that list has more recoil than a 357. There are lots of 357 rifles out there and plenty of good hunting loads. Get one and shoot it for awhile. Shoot a few telephone books at 100 yards and see for yourself how much energy it has. If you aren't satisfied have it rechambered to 357 maximum.
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