You've got 25 acres to protect, Mini 14, or M1Carbine?

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Mini 14s are reasonbly decent rifles but for the price I think there are better options.

You talk about adding $200 to build your Mini into what you want and you are up to what the $700 area. There are quite a few very nice options in that neighborhood.

Mini's are reliable, accurate enough for general work and would make a decent truck/pest gun. The problem I have is there cost has gotten to a point where other options are just more attractive.

I really think a nice lever action trapper length carbine in .30.30 is about the best all around utility rifle on the planet/shotguns not-withstanding.
Heck even a .357 magnum lever gun loaded with heavy bullets approaches .30 .30 territory and gives you more rounds.

From a price/performance/practicality point it is very hard to beat a solid Marlin or Winny lever gun. Not to mention you can pretty much find .30.30 and .357/.38 anyplace in the country from the city to podunk gulch nowhere.

My two cents. I am not a mini basher. I have never said they suck or they have no use etc. They are a reliable little ranch rifle in a decent caliber. I just think their bang for the buck value equation not quite as good as other options.

P.S. Mace's Mini is about the baddest mini I have ever seen and I am sure it is a hoot to shoot and if you are willing to spend the money on something like that then you will have a very unique, cool, awesome performing rifle. If you just want a utility gun get a good lever and be forget about everything else.

Chris
 
Logistics

If I owned a glock, then a glock conversion would be a decent option. But I don't... and I'd probably prefer a rifle round. If I went with a pistol round, the 357Mag would probably be the way to go since I already own a gun chambered in it.

If I owned a 30-30 already, then adding another 30-30 wouldn't be a problem, but I don't, and so a 30-30 lever would be a new action AND a new caliber, not logistical at all. Also, a Buffalo Bore 357Mag out of a 18" rifle, exceeds 30-30 specs; so I see absolutely no reason the consider the 30-30. A 357Mag will do everything a 30-30 does, and is much more logistical. So, ixna on the 30-30.

I would prefer a .223 for ranch caliber, and really hope for M16 mag compatibility.. Without it being an AR...

So, that would then open up to AR180B or Kel Tec SU-16.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106026

Yeah Yeah yeah, I'm anal, it's not a sin (yet) until Di Fi passes a law against it.. I'd like to maximize the gun/logistics/$$$ ratio... and it's not as easy as most people think...

The weight is also a factor, as I'd like it to be a gun my gf can use easily.. If weight wasn't an issue, I would be just using my M1A and calling it a day....
 
30-30(and 7.62X39) don't do what .223 does. .223 has a much flatter trajectory, with a 250 yard zero still allowing you to keep the bullet within four inches of the aiming point out to 300 yards.
 
Since Janie is short, wouldn't a 5.45 AK with a red dot and an extended safety lever solve the problem?

Of the carbine/Mini, I can see arguments for both...but consider both too unreliable.
 
Uh-oh!

A 357Mag will do everything a 30-30 does
Click to expand...

I envision seeing a lot of people dumping their worthless .30-30 leverguns based on that gem of wisdom. :rolleyes:

Do the math. Boffalo Bore's 180gr Heavy .357 Magnum clocks an average of 1848fps from a 16" Winchester 94 Ranger carbine. Data here:

http://www.gunblast.com/MilesFortis-AKChurch_BuffaloBore.htm

Now, a 170gr .30-30 round, fired from a Winchester 94, gives 2100fps, per the Speer reloading manual. And it's a cleaner .30 caliber bullet, so it will shed velocity and energy less than the .358 bullet fired from the .357 Magnum rifle. So tell me again how a .357 Magnum will do everything a .30-30 does. :scrutiny:

(And I run 158gr .357 Magnum handloads over 1600 fps from my 6" Desert Eagle, so Buffalo Bore isn't on to anything new there...)

30-30(and 7.62X39) don't do what .223 does.
Click to expand...

Andrew, you're absolutely correct. A .223 doesn't deliver the energy a .30 caliber, 150 or 170gr bullet does when launched from a lever rifle chambered in .30-30 Winchester. Example: 1664 ft pounds for a 170gr .30-30 at 100 yards, compared to 970 ft pounds at 100 yards from a 55gr .223 Remington bullet out of a 20" barrel AR-15.

So the poodleshooter cartridge has a flat trajectory, no problem. But it does have issues, which are being worked on as the military evaluates the 6.8 SPC. In the meantime, there's not a darned thing wrong with using a .30-30 Winchester to stop that which would threaten your existence.
 
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Mini-14 Ranch Rifle. Despite the continued bashing, I have found them to be utterly reliable, accurate enough for the job at hand, and easy to learn to shoot well. The .223 has MUCH more punch than the .30 Carbine.
'Course, I would opt for a M1A myself, but if you choose to limit your choices to those two, go with the Mini.
 
there's not a darned thing wrong with using a .30-30 Winchester to stop that which would threaten your existence.
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8 round capacity, maximum ordinate of more than a foot at 300 yards and glacially slow loading?


it's nice to be able to load 20 rounds in one go, and not have to worry about lots of holdover on the kind of shots a ranch rifle is likely to make.
 
Sounds like a training problem...

8 round capacity and glacially slow loading?

it's nice to be able to load 20 rounds in one go.
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If you can't make the first 8 rounds of .30-30 hit their mark. Or are we defending the farm against mutant undead zombie UN blue helmets marching down the dirt road in droves? Hope I'm not plagiarizing George Armstrong Custer, but a lever action Winchester in skilled hands can really wreck a person's day. ;)
 
The 30-30 is a good round.. If I'm within 100 yards, I'm probably not going to gain another caliber (30-30) over the .357Mag hothouse loads, because within the 100 yards, I'm probably not going to gain all that much more bang for the logistical problem increase (i.e. I might have a revolver on my hip in 357Mag, but probably won't have a 30-30 on my hip) So AGAIN, the 30-30 is not a consideration.

the .223 is a decent varmint round. So it is in the running for consideration.

The M1Carbine is small and light, but the round is really anemic. The round is the downfall of this otherwise great little gun. Probably of all the handy rifles, I think the M1Carbine points the most naturally..

The AR is horrible in theory, not too bad in practice.
The Mini 14 is excellent in theory, so so in execution.
The AR180B is excellent in theory, so so in QA/QC.
The SU-16 is light and handy, but is a "store a long time, shoot a little; not a shoot a long time, store a little"

Next up for investigation, the Saiga's.. The problem is, do I really want 8lb+ for a .223? The answer is probably a very big no..
 
just call up Mech-Tech systems and get a Carbine Conversion Unit for a Glock 20. Some new standard capacity magazines and you've got a 15 shot 10mm, lightweight carbine. More oomph than a wimpy .357 mag...especially if you call Doubletap ammo.
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Wimpy 357?


Copied from the doubletap website

Caliber : 10mm

Bullet : Gold Dot Lineup

Ballistics : 155gr. @ 1475fps /750ft/lbs - Glock 20



Copied and pasted from the Buffalo Bore Ammo website

357 Magnum Item No. 19D20 125 gr. JHC (1700 fps ME 802 ft lbs.)


If the 357 is considered wimpy then the 10mm also falls into the same category.
 
Well, I love my Saiga in .223, and it sure doesn't feel too heavy. It is definitely heavier than a SU-16, but I don't think it is heavier than a Mini 14. They say high-caps are on the way, but with 12 rounds even now, it is pretty convincing to me.

I would also note that it is pretty accurate - I can keep em in the 10-ring on the 100 yard military target with ease (resting the forestock on a block).
 
If you can't make the first 8 rounds of .30-30 hit their mark. Or are we defending the farm against mutant undead zombie UN blue helmets marching down the dirt road in droves?
Click to expand...

No, but we are talking about not making a load stroke 8 times to reload the gun.
 
It is officical - I was born in the wrong Era.

How in the hell did we ever survive without , logistics, tactical, bling bling, poodleshooters, synthetic stocks and whatever else?

How in the hell did Carlos Hathcock make 93 confirmed kills with a Model 70 in '06? OMG ...he had to fire, turn a bolt , and repeat for each shot!

OMG , the Old West, John Wayne, all them deer , shoot and lever the gun...how did we ever make it?

I have babysat farm homes, with a Model 12 , a Model 94 and a Model 70...oh forgive me Father I have sinned... I plinked with a S&W Model 18 and A Colt Woodsman while out there...all alone, maybe a dog to keep me out of trouble. The "property" the house is on is only 480 acres - for one example. Across the road ...over 2k acres.

I could have been "kilt" - I was so stupid.

Well hell - at my age I hate change. Gimme the Wood&Blue 94 in 30-30. I don't care my ammo from a 1911 won't fit it....or vice versa.

49 , I ought to be hell on wheels in about 10 yrs - huh?
Am I elgible for Reprobate....where is Old Fuff - I need to ask him.

:) :)
 
sm,

Gimme the Wood&Blue 94 in 30-30. I don't care my ammo from a 1911 won't fit it....or vice versa.
Click to expand...

Although it is kinda fun knowing that the 625 on your hip holds six spares for the 94 Trapper in your hand. ;)
 
Although it is kinda fun knowing that the 625 on your hip holds six spares for the 94 Trapper in your hand.
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You aren't going soft on me now are you Tam??

sm, be thankful you remember the "good ol' days". When you can no longer remember where you put your dentures...
 
M1 carbine for everything out to 200 yards, mauser 96/98, '03 springfield, for the longrange work.

Or... you could just get a M1 Garand to cover everything.:D
 
Of the two choices offered by the thread starter, I would take a good M1 carbine, loaded with softpoints, is plenty effective as a man stopper, has better sights then the mini, is lighter, has a better magazine setup, and is an actual military weapon, where as the mini is poor copy of a military rifle that is made by a company that doesn't believe people should have military type rifles or needs anything other then a five round mag.

Some people here have stated that the .223 is far more powerful than the .30 carbine, does a couple hundred foot pounds of energy really make it "far" more powerful? The .223 isnt exactly a powerhouse, Bullet constuction is important, good soft points make the carbine viable. Having shot both, and liking both, Niether are the end all, or do all, but both can be effective as defensive round.

Others have recommended 10mm carbines, which are less powerful then the 30 carbine, so I guess its all relative. I wouldnt want to be hit by any of these.

I think whats most important is that you become proficient with whatever you choose to carry, as a kid, I could hit anything with my carbine, It was a part of me. Whichever gun you get, shoot the heck out of it untill it becomes a part of you.
 
My concern would be varmints (coyote & the like) and so my choice would be the Mini-14. I'd crop the barrel to 16.5" to make it more accurate.
 
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