Zastava M70A (TOkarev Clone) Trigger reach

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by dashootist, Oct 15, 2014.

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  1. dashootist

    dashootist Member

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    Hi.

    Compare to the 1911, how is the Tokarev trigger reach?

    I've very small hands. And I went out and bought a 1911 because everyone said it is good for small hands. But the 1911's grip is still too big for my taste. And my trigger finger can barely reach the trigger. As a result, I don't have good control of the gun. It's fine at the gun range, plinking away. But in real life self-defense situation, it's not good. I want more control.

    I'm looking for something with shorter trigger reach than the 1911. I'm going to sell the 1911, and buy something else. How's the Tokarev's trigger reach?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  2. nathan

    nathan Member

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    The tokarev pistol is very slim . Trigger reach is short. Try handling one at your local gunshop esp those who sell surplus pistols.
     
  3. il.bill

    il.bill Member

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    You need to try them each in hand, side by side.

    With the hammer cocked, measuring from the front of the trigger to the rear of the grip safety, my 1911 measures about 3/32" shorter than my M70A measures from the front of the trigger to the rear of the backstrap.

    But - the Zastava 9x19mm Tokarev pistol grip feels quite a bit smaller.
     
  4. TomJ
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    TomJ Contributing Member

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    I also have smaller hands. Springfield's XD series fits me well, as does their XDS series, which also has the benefit of adjustable grips. Glock's Gen 4 also has adjustable grips. I haven't looked at them yet, so I can't speak to their grip size, but it's worth looking at. Finally, I don't know if all 1911's have the same grip size, but we have a Springfield Mil Spec, and it's also comfortable for me.
     
  5. dashootist

    dashootist Member

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    I have a Caspian. It does look slightly bigger than other 1911. The frame and slide just looks beefier. It has that beaver tail. Maybe that's why it feels bigger? Also I think Caspian uses casting instead of forging. So, it makes sense to me there frames and slides are bigger to account for the weaker cast metal. I'll have to find a Mil Spec 1911 to compare side by side.

    Anyhoo, I rather have a 9mm. The 45 is a little too much for me.
     
  6. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    There are lots of "pocket nines" out there now. Most of them are too small for my very large hands, but they sound just right for you.
     
  7. zeke

    zeke Member

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    The thin wood grips available for 1911's can make a substantial difference.
     
  8. jhb

    jhb Member

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    ^this.

    Thin grips make a major difference.
     
  9. peacebutready

    peacebutready Member

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    Yes, look at the slim grips.
     
  10. dashootist

    dashootist Member

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    Ok. I took the plunge by buying the Zastave Tokarev. It is definitely feels better in my small hand than the 1911. I can grip the Tokarev good and tight with only one hand; whereas the 1911 needed both hands for a secure grip. So the verdict is in: Tokarev is better for small hands.

    As for shooting it, I really like the low recoil of the 9mm. THis is my first 9mm.

    However, there's a small problem. The trigger doesn't move all the way forward after I release it. I have to manually pull the trigger forward with my thumb and index finger after every shot. The gun is brand new (not surplus), so maybe it needs to be broken in?
     
  11. Jaymo

    Jaymo Member

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    I like the safety on the Zastzva M70, even though I don't normally like slide safeties.
    It's well designed. It's compact, unobtrusive, and works easily.
    Like all Toks, it needs sights along the line of Novaks. The factory sights are pretty bad about snagging.

    About your lack of trigger reset, it could be a spring problem, or it could be burrs causing the problem. Maybe something else, I'm not remembering.
     
  12. dashootist

    dashootist Member

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    Looks like the problem was indeed burr. The frame had a really rough spot. I took the gun apart and imeediately saw the burr. I stoned it smooth, and the problem is gone. I'm glad I got it fixed w/o having to ship the gun back.

    I'm really liking the gun. It's like a smaller and simpler version of the 1911. For just $220 shipped. :eek: I hope it keeps shooting good. It is shooting very low, though. And the trigger feels too light for SD, imo. I'm guessing it's around 5-lb.
     
  13. Wanderling

    Wanderling Member

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    Hi dashootist,

    I am very interesting in getting a Zastava. Would you say it's shooting low due to the grip angle, or the sights ? Can you just file the front sight down a little to fix this ? How is the grouping ?
     
  14. dashootist

    dashootist Member

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    I haven't shot the Zast' enough to know. It's my nightstand gun, so group size has not been my concern. Next time I go to the outdoor range, I'll try some long range shots.

    The sights are military style...i.e. for precision shooting, not the best for SD.
    I'm think it would be pretty simple to file down the front sight.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
  15. 9 fingers

    9 fingers Member

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    I have the M88a Zastava, basically the compact version, and mine was shooting 3" low at 25'. I filed down the front sight and touched it up with Oxpho Blue and all is good. Trigger reach is very short but the pull is high, around 10lbs. Still, I am easily able to get very accruate groups. I xpect the full size Tokarev would be even better. There are mods for the trigger to lighten and smooth and they are not difficult. I just got a Polish TT33 Tokarev from Classic Firearms, but in 7.62x25. Trigger on this one is great but I have not shot it yet as I don't have my NJ permits yet.
    9 fingers


    PS - dashootist, the Zastavas are very nicely finished on the outside but are very rough inside. You would help yourself by taking it apart as much as you are comfortable doing and using some 600 or 1,000 paper, or use stones if you ahve them, and going over all of the rough edges. Clean it really well, maybe soak it overnight in Breakfree CLP or whatever you like, and then starting fresh. My M88a has gotten much smoother since my initial work and shooting 100 rounds or so. I am surprised your trigger is light. Is the magazine disconnect still in place?
     
  16. dashootist

    dashootist Member

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    Yes, the mag disconnect is still in place. I was sitting there last night trying to figure out how to remove it.

    I don't know the weight of the trigger; I don't have a trigger scale. But it's not heavy like I expected military style pistol to be. Maybe I'm just biased...I prefer heavy trigger pull...makes me feel safer that I won't accidentally touch the trigger and have a bang.
     
  17. il.bill

    il.bill Member

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    The M70A is very easy to detail strip all the way down for a clean up, as long as you leave the fire control group as an assembly. Given how nice the outside looks, I was surprised at how rough the inside was finished.

    Before you grab your front sight file, be sure to try different types of 9x19mm ammo. Your pistol may not like 115 grain, but be spot on shooting 124 grain bullets, for example. Some of my nine millimeter pistols just love Winchester White Box cheap target ammo, while others give me 15 yard 'groups' that look like a shotgun spread.

    My Zastava M70A feels very good in hand and it is quite comfortable shooting lots of rounds at a range session. It is robust and reliable, and I use it as my platform for first trying out new 9mm reloads. See if different ammo comes closer to POA.

    Good luck and happy shooting. Post some pictures if you can.
     
  18. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Be aware that "1911" style pistols come with a variety of trigger options. One may easily vary the length of the trigger.

    GI type grips keep the 1911 styles fairly thin compared to the 9 sillymeter double stacks out there.

    The only thing that frightens me about the M70A is......well I used to own a Yugo......

    -kBob
     
  19. peacebutready

    peacebutready Member

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    I wouldn't let that concern you. Cars/guns, apples/oranges.

    Off Topic: I think the Yugo was a commie copy of a Fiat. If that particular Fiat was a bad design, Zastava should have copied the Honda Civic. If the Fiat design was OK, a well made copy would have been good for an inexpensive car.
     
  20. goon

    goon Member

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    dashootist - there are a couple things you can try to get your gun shooting to point of aim.
    First, try different ammunition. Usually, a heavier and slower bullet will impact higher than a light, fast bullet. You might be able solve the problem just by doing that.

    If that doesn't work, you can get yourself a bastard file and a piece of leather or denim. Make a small cut in the cloth or leather and put that around the sight. Use it to protect the slide, then carefully take a few passes off the sight at a time with the file until you get it hitting point of aim. File a couple passes, shoot a few shots, unload the gun, check the target... etc.

    It sounds a little scarey, but once you've done it, it's not a big deal. I've done it with probably half a dozen handguns (mostly revolvers). Doesn't take much to bring the point of impact up quite a bit.
     
  21. dashootist

    dashootist Member

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    Okay, just got back from the range. This time I tried Wolf 115gr ammo, and the gun shoots POA this time. The stuff I used last time was "Estate Target Ammo 115 gr."

    So far, I like this gun. Fits my small hand. Good smooth, crisp trigger. Very nice finish. Low recoil. It'll be a very good bed side gun.

    I had two small problems with this gun. I was able to fix myself easily. First was the trigger reset problem caused by burrs (see post #12). Second was the pin on the guide rod. This pin came loose and prevented the recoil spring from extending fully. I restaked the pin, and now everything is good.
     
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