Loyalist Dave
Member
Howdy folks, I am wondering if casting say a 450 grain .500 bullet out of Zinc would have enough hardness for use on dangerous game such as Elephant or Cape Buffalo, or Rhino if it was launched at a MV of 2000 fps?
LD
LD
Zinc Bullet for Dangerous Game?
- Thread starter Loyalist Dave
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Loosedhorse
member
Lead has a density of 11.3 g/cm^3. Copper (think Barnes TSX) 8.9. Zinc is 7.1.
The main problem with copper TSXs is that in order to get the same SD for a copper bullet (as a bullet with lead), you have to make the bullet longer...and that eats case capacity that should be going to powder. If you use zinc, you're going to end up with a bullet that's 25% longer than a copper one, and almost 60% longer that a pure lead bullet would be, to get the same bullet weight.
And bullet weight is BIG on dangerous game.
Also, I believe zinc is not tough (as opposed to hard). The old Aguila IQ HPs were famous for fragmenting. Fragmentation is absolutely NOT what you want in a DG bullet.
The main problem with copper TSXs is that in order to get the same SD for a copper bullet (as a bullet with lead), you have to make the bullet longer...and that eats case capacity that should be going to powder. If you use zinc, you're going to end up with a bullet that's 25% longer than a copper one, and almost 60% longer that a pure lead bullet would be, to get the same bullet weight.
And bullet weight is BIG on dangerous game.
Also, I believe zinc is not tough (as opposed to hard). The old Aguila IQ HPs were famous for fragmenting. Fragmentation is absolutely NOT what you want in a DG bullet.
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Loyalist Dave
Member
ZOIKERS! 
I hadn't considered frangibility/fragmentation or in other words the brittleness of Zinc when I asked the question. Thanks for pointing that out.
LD
I hadn't considered frangibility/fragmentation or in other words the brittleness of Zinc when I asked the question. Thanks for pointing that out.
LD
Chemistry Guy
Member
You could make a wonderful bullet out of iridium alloyed platinum. Almost twice as dense as lead and a whole lot harder. The problem is it would probably cost more than your gun.
Flintknapper
Member
See post #2....L/H is exactly right.
Here is an example of just that situation with an all copper Barnes 300 gr. TTSX in .458 caliber:
http://458socomforums.com/index.php?topic=138.0
Case capacity is significantly reduced...owing to the exceptional length of the bullet. Consequently...you risk creating an over-pressure situation if you try to use loading data for other 300 grain bullets.
The same thing would certainly occur with zinc...unless you dropped down in bullet weight. So heed his good advice.
Here is an example of just that situation with an all copper Barnes 300 gr. TTSX in .458 caliber:
http://458socomforums.com/index.php?topic=138.0
Case capacity is significantly reduced...owing to the exceptional length of the bullet. Consequently...you risk creating an over-pressure situation if you try to use loading data for other 300 grain bullets.
The same thing would certainly occur with zinc...unless you dropped down in bullet weight. So heed his good advice.
You do not say what the cartridge is but A-Square has monolithic solids from a brass alloy and offer a line of loaded ammo. Despite not being well known they have been in business for a long time...
http://a-squareco.com
http://a-squareco.com
Lloyd Smale
Member
I fooled a bit with casting zinc years ago. A 450 grain .50 would be a HUGE bullet. So youd have to start with a mold that casted about 750 grain out of lead to get there. If i remember zinc bullets weighted about a 1/3 less then comparable cast lead bullets out of even hard alloys. that and they tended to fracture on impact.
Loosedhorse
member
A-Square, among hunters of large animals, is one of the best known names in the business.
Federal loads Barnes Banded Solids, which are machined from homogenous copper/zinc alloy. And of course the Barnes TSX and the Hornady GMX are "expanding monometal solids," so to speak.
I don't know anything about zinc bullets, but with the Barnes bullets the idea is to drop down in bullet weight and push them much faster. The solid copper holds together better than lead at the faster speeds and out penetrates even though you are dropping down in weight and have a lower SD.
They work just fine, you have to understand how to use them.
That is why there is separate loading data for Barnes bullets. It is possible to shoot them at the exact same speeds as conventional bullets, but different load data must be used. Many of the same powders will work, but the amount of powder necessary to get that speed is reduced.
They work just fine, you have to understand how to use them.
That is why there is separate loading data for Barnes bullets. It is possible to shoot them at the exact same speeds as conventional bullets, but different load data must be used. Many of the same powders will work, but the amount of powder necessary to get that speed is reduced.
MachIVshooter
Member
Tungsten is much heavier than lead, and much cheaper than iridium or platinum. Of course, it would have to be clad if you want rifling in your barrel after the first shot....
MachIVshooter
Member
Tungsten is heavier, cheaper and not a restricted material. It's also harder than uranium. Tungsten's only disadvantage is that, unalloyed, it's fairly brittle, which is why sabot penetrators are DU.
atomchaser
Member
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Perfect if your game is armor plated. The NRC may take a dim view of it, however. You also have to clad it in something as it oxidizes pretty readily. It used to be a good bit cheaper than tungsten as the Dept of Energy had lots of it and no real use for it. It used to used in aircraft counterweights as well.
Rail Driver
Member
Barrels (and bores) are hardened steel right? Why not mild steel bullets?
MachIVshooter
Member
Too light; Mild steel is barely heavier than zinc. Would still be pretty hard on the bore, too.
Metal weight chart:
http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm
Tungsten or DU really would be the way to go if you wanted a very heavy, very hard bullet. Both are considerably heavier than lead. You'd definitely need them clad in soft metal, though. Probably bands so that it could displace easily, since the slug absolutely would not compress.
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