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Zumbo.. Friend or Foe?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by sb350hp, Mar 28, 2007.

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  1. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

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    IMHO the situation with JZ is really really overblown. Before you go jumpin down my throat hear me out. The reason I feel this was is:

    #1. The weapons that JZ called "terrorist" weapons are already stereo typed as such. Anyone who watches TV sees that the rifles in question are portrayed as such. So that should not be a surprise to anyone.

    #2. The AK's SKS's and the like are not designed to be "hunting" rifles. Effective, yes, and fun. Like it or not they have a stigma behind them.

    #3. In a conversation regarding hunting I myself would not list or catergorize this style of weapon as a "hunting" rifle. I would believe that honestly most avid shooter or gun nuts would agree. Keep in mind we know that they "work" for hunting but were not originally desinged as such. With that same thought in mind the model 700 Rem and Mdl 70 winchester were not originally designed to be sniper rifles for police/military. Nuff said.

    #4. The gun communities continued blasting of something said, and apologized for only gives even more ammuntion to the anti gunners propoganda. Yes they can use what JZ said, but they can use our immediate extreme hatered for him even more. If we cast him aside like yesterdays news even though he has dedicated years of his life to defense of and responsible ownership of guns. Proves to the anti's that we are nothing more than a bunch of narrow minded, right wing nut jobs who cannot see past a mindless mistake (you know if JZ could turn back time he would).

    #5. Now for my take on JZ in a nutshell. What he said was wrong and will be way overblown and taken to the extreme in both possible contexts (good/bad) The anti-gunner will use it, but no more than any other statistic that they twist to fill thier data sheets w/ scewed information. I think becuase of what was said JZ name is now in front of and familiar with more poeple than ever before. If we can use him as a voice (since he is in the spotlight) we can benefit from the publicity, like brittney does for not wearing any underwear. I still consider JZ one of us a proud gun owner who sees different weapons in different light. I support him and am sorry his life as it was is now over. He is not a politician, but unfortunatley politics has infected just about every aspect of our lives and we are paying the price.
     
  2. bogie

    bogie Member

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    It's just one symptom of the schism of gun owners... I'd rather have him available to negate his rant than to have him confirming his rant.

    Anyone hearing anything?
     
  3. Jim K

    Jim K Member.

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    It is the problem of someone who appeared to be a supporter turning against us. Even if he sincerely regrets what he wrote, it was written and is now being used by our opponents as proof "from the inside" that we are all terrorists and murderers, except the "good" sportsmen who use only the "correct" guns. The antis claim that they are not against shooting or hunting by "sportsmen". In fact their ultimate goal is a total ban on all private firearms, but they are clever enough to realize that they cannot achieve that goal immediately, and that a gradual approach, disguising their intentions, will be more likely to work. The old saying about a wolf disguising himself as a sheep so he can kill sheep certainly applies.

    Plus, there is the feeling of betrayal. If, say, a Moslem disputes some doctrine of the Catholic church, it is expected and no one is surprised. But, if the Pope suddenly converts to Islam, that is another situation.

    Jim
     
  4. Dr. Dickie

    Dr. Dickie Member

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    What Jim said, plus the fact that it seemed apparent from what he wrote that he was perfectly okay with the rest of us being stripped of our guns, as long as he could keep his for hunting. The only real reason to own a firearm, don't ya know.
     
  5. 30 cal slob

    30 cal slob Member

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    and, despite his pennance and "rehabilitation" - his words are being used against us by those who would strip us of our rights.
     
  6. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    :mad: :mad: With friends like Zumbo, the "walnut snobs" the FUDDS and the Ruger family, who needs enemies?:mad: :mad:
     
  7. SaMx

    SaMx Member

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    I agree with Bogie, I think.
    I would rather forgive him, and have him on our side, saying that he was wrong before; than on the anti side, campaigning for a new AWB.
     
  8. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Sigh...

    How many Mausers, P17s, SMLE 303s, 03/03A3s rifles were used by our fathers/grandfathers for hunting? None of these guns were designed for hunting and all of them were designed for military sales. In spite of this thousands upon thousands upon thousands of them turned into outstanding hunting rifles (the Mauser "action" is possibly the single most successful "hunting" design ever).

    How in the world can anyone not say the same about modern firearms in modern calibers without being intellectually dishonest or woefully unaware of the varment/precision shooters and their use of the AR platform in various calibers and the inexpensive brush gun the SKS offers to lower income shooters?

    Now, all that aside, the 2A isn't about hunting, hunting isn't a protected constitutional right, and hunting firearms are not protected by the 2A.

    Jim's real value is in using the pulpet provided by the controversy to reach the undecided and fencesitting public as well as hunters that don't see the threat from gun grabber politicians. His other value is in calling shame on the grabbers using his name and situation to condemn all of us and trying to divide the shooting community.
     
  9. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

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    Well I see most are defaulting back to their original arguement. I hate him because he said it. It is time to get over it! The anti gunners are going after your "assualt" weapons, Hi-cap handguns, and the like becuase they can. Did JZ add fuel to the fire? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Embrace his guilt and use him to lobby for us, guns are what has made it possible for him to live the lifestyle he is accustomed too. He will not be willing to give that up for one stupid statement.

    Everyone of us at one point in our lives have said something we regret! Unfortunatley for JZ it was immediatley in the spotlight with no possibility of a retraction.
     
  10. Dr. Dickie

    Dr. Dickie Member

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    You brought it up, not us. What is your dog in this? Why don't you get over it!
    We did not bring about his fall, we cannot resurrect him from the grave. Only Jim Zumbo has had the power to do both.
     
  11. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I agree with hso...

    But more then that, the low cost of military surplus rifles brought literally thousands of mostly young folks into the shooting sports. The cash-strapped buyer who started with a surplus Mauser, Enfield (both 1914 and SMLE) or a Springfield often ended up later in life with a safe full of Winchesters, Remingtons and other approved-for-hunting rifles. The High Road is filed with older members that meet this description.

    Zumbo is an example of the hunter snob or at least he was. Such individuals believe that real hunters should go afield with sporting arms made by a mainline manufacturer exclusively for that purpose. Apparently those that don't meet their standards don't belong in the field. This perception was nicely shown by the Democrat's recent Presidential candidate who appeared on TV in an LL Bean outfit and a fancy engraved double-barreled shotgun, while his giude(?) wore something from Wal-Mart and a plain ol' pump gun.

    The regulation of hunting arms is largely conducted through regulations made by the various state Fish & Game Departments, and while they have some magazine capacity limits, none ban military style semi-automatic rifles.

    Maybe some folks should notice this... :banghead:
     
  12. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

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    Dr. Dickie
    Point made! Based on what I have entered you can see a bias and that is not what I am trying to convey.

    Let me restate breifly what I fear. The arguements being made seem to be based on a belief that because of what JZ said we are fighting a tougher battle when indeed the situation has not changed. My dog in this fight is to use the spotlight now shinning on our plight to enlighten people in a positive way. What I see in the threads on THR is that most seem to want to take JZ out and stone him to death.

    Can we not take THR and use this to our advantage? I see no disadvantage to our cause by what JZ said. His opinion is his opinion and the fact that he issued a retraction, is apologetic and vocal about the fact he does not feel the way it sounded. (Even if down deep inside someplace he really does feel that SK's, AK's etc are "terrorist" weapons) if he is vocal and steadfast he is now a stronger proponet of gun rights then ever before. Can this not be a blessing in disguise?
     
  13. Yakko

    Yakko Member

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    Friend??? Foe???

    I believe a better description is "acquantance." He formed an opinion out of ignorance. Fortunately for all gun owners he appears to want to learn and adapt.

    Is he a friend? I don't think he is, not yet, but there is potential.

    Is he a foe? No, he realized that being a foe to will kill his career.
     
  14. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    Zumbo nerver said or insinuated that. He said that he did not want EBRs used for hunting. He did not say banned from ownership. Banned from hunting yes (his big boo boo). Please get your facts correct.

    Old Fluff, the only state that I am familiar that restricts semi-automatic firearm use for hunting is Pennsylvania (excludes shotguns). I have heard there are others, but am not familiar with them. Pennsylvania is not likely to change either. Go ahead and stomp your feet.

    And yes, terrorists or like minded DO use these rifles among other things. You see them nearly every day on the news in Iraq. Of couse, these are the true assault rifles (full auto capable or select fire capability). But they are just rifles. Police, military, and shooters use them too.
     
  15. 1911JMB

    1911JMB Member

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    To add to what HSO and Old Fluff said, my visits to rural michigan to go deer hunting always reveal that rural folks use WWII take home guns to deer hunt as often as not. Sporterized (or not) Mausers, 03's, Garand's, stuff like that, they appear in the field as often as a remington 700 or Winchester 94 in someplace rural. Either bought cheap, or brought home by dad/grandpa.

    Not everyone can afford a 30,000 dollar shotgun to shoot their buddy with, so old military rifles will continue to be a deer gun of choice for hunters for many years to come.
     
  16. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

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    Somhow old enfields, mausers and springers have made there way into this thread.

    None of which was designed as a hunting rifle but they do not fall into the catergory of an "assault" weapon such and those that have the stigma that follows them.

    A historic WW2 rifle in no way falls into the same catergory as the AK47, SKS and even the mini 30 ranch rifle.

    As you know any gun can be an assault weapon. As an assualt is an action, not an object
     
  17. TWBryan

    TWBryan Member

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    Don't feed the troll.:barf:

    TWBryan
     
  18. 1911JMB

    1911JMB Member

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    umm, sb, I do believe that HR1022 specifically names SKS's and Garands, and in case you missed it, a jack ass senator from my state tried to use what JZ said to push HR1022.
     
  19. heypete

    heypete Member

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    *shrugs* I think he may have been misinformed before, and given considerable ammunition to the anti-gun folks, but I believe he's learned his lesson and has come around.

    Not foe, but hopefully soon a friend.
     
  20. heypete

    heypete Member

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    HR1022 bans SKS rifles with detachable magazines, all fixed-magazine rifles with magazines greater than 10 rounds, and the M1 Carbine (among others, but this was specific to what you mentioned). It does not mention M1 Garands, but being that anti-gunners tend to have a fixation on:
    a. A 10-round limit.
    b. Detachable magazines.
    c. Large fixed magazines that are not a .22LR tubular magazine.
    ...then the M1 Garand would be exempt because it has an 8 round capacity fixed magazine which cannot be modified without substantial changes to the gun as a whole (as far as I know).
     
  21. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    Not much stigma in WWII rifles... just that the Mausers were used by the Nazis (kill Jews, Americans, Brits, etc), and Mosins were used by the Commies (starve the Ukraine folk, etc).
     
  22. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

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    Geronimo...
    HUH?????

    That is an etirely different level of "stigma". If you were to ask the avg anti gunner what gun is most "Assualt-ish" (new word). I am quite certian the historical WMD's would not even be considered. An 8 round stripper mag or a 30+ rd detatchable mag....

    Granted when it comes to "stigma" your point has a point. Just a different topic.
     
  23. Husker1911

    Husker1911 Member

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    Serious question: Are you a member of American Hunters and Shooters Association?
     
  24. sb350hp

    sb350hp Member

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    Husker...

    No. NRA yes.

    Is that applicable for some reason?
     
  25. Husker1911

    Husker1911 Member

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    Sounds like you have a problem with ownership of what you (!) say are "assault rifles." Or that you put store into the propaganda about just how evil said rifles are.
     
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