Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by blackhawk2000, Feb 17, 2007.
Call Remington 1-800-243-9700
While I think every man is entitled to his opinion, when a man displays his ignorance so handily about a subject so vital, in such a way that it can only hurt his own supporters, he merits the most profound contempt possible.
Leave him behind. Notify both Remington and Outdoor Life regarding who they have as their spokesman.
What Zumbo said about AR 15s was as bad in gunny circles, as what Tim Hardaway said about homosexuals.
I just hope he pays as heavy a price as Tim is paying.
Wow you guys are lambasting him in the comments section. I wonder if Outdoor Life is pissed at either the author or the editor who ran it?
I cleaned up some comments in this thread.
If yours was one of them, kindly review the forum rules.
If you responded in kind to one of them, kindly remember the "report this post" icon.
Ever made a careless or thoughtless remark?
Zumbo did. He should think about it a bit and maybe get a few more facts.
When folks react by burying him in pile of vile epithets, they
1. Intimate that he shouldn't be able to exercise his first amendment rights
2. Give ammunition to those who would label us as a bunch of hot-headed extremists, and
3. Burn bridges that would still be useful in the future.
Criticism doesn't help. Education does. There are some elements of education in the blog responses, but they are well camouflaged by incendiary comments. Summoning a verbal hit on a guy who was expressing an ill-advised opinion just doesn't seem like the high road way to me.
If manners doesn't work, what are we doing on a forum by this name? I think they work fine as a way of overcoming our inevitable differences and emphasizing mutual respect.
I'm in with Rust Collector.
As much as I'm stunned by that article and believe the Zumbo is being almost criminally shortsighted, I am also made absolutely sick by the "raging mob" mentality that characterizes a lot of the responses.
I want to have a conversation with Zumbo and explane why I think he's wrong and the dangers I don't think he sees or understands, but I sure has hell don't want to stand with -that- mob to do it.
Pour it on.
Email addresses for his sponsors. Thanks to a post on AR-15 board and Tater of Ft. Worth.
For everyone that would like to express your opinion of Mr. Zumbo's anti-gun positions, here's an updated email list of his sponsors:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected], i
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected],
Tell them of how you feel of their dollars supporting this individual.
Can't say I agree here. While this guy is certainly entitled to his freedom of speech, those who would label us as a gaggle of extremists don't need any ammunition. The antis have been spouting the same old disproven arguments about civilian firearm ownership for decades now, completely undeterred by facts, logic, or civility. As far as bridges that would be useful in the future...I think that the hook-and-bullet writers who haven't figured out that no gun is safe from the anti-gun bigots out there, are beyond help and deserve to be called out loudly and at every opportunity as the enemies to freedom they are.
Wow! Over the years, I've built up a huge amount of respect for Zumbo. Amazing how it can all be lost in an instant.
What a turncoat! He reminds me of the French citizens who capitulated to the Germans during WWII. Turn in your neighbors to save your own arse. Yep. That's the honorable way to live.
His article is over 1200 comments now. I believe that most of the juvenile comments are coming from just that juveniles that hang out on some of the more loosely moderated boards. While their comments do us no favors they too are entitled to their free speech.
Mr. Zumbo needs feedback and it is good we fill his vacuum with something useful and educating. Like just because we don't write in about every blithering statement he makes doesn't mean we aren't paying attention.
I think Zumbo probably should not have written this article in OL. That said, the all or nothing comments really bother me with regard to hunting. I think few would believe that you don't need or should have a followup shot while hunting. You have a very fast followup shot with a bolt action rifle, a lever action rifle, or a pump action rifle. I for one could never understand the interest in the H&R single shot rifle for hunting unless you are shooting them for varmints where a followup is frequently not needed. I won't buy one of these. Savage makes a single shot 22 hornet rifle that I like; I'd buy it in a minute if they just add a 5-shot magazine or something reasonable.
<deleted inaccurate comment: see http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3124040&postcount=80>
I for one do not want to have any restrictions on ownership of the commonly referred to "black rifles" or civilian versions (i.e. semi-automatic) of the select fire military battle rifles. It is not about somehow not supporting the right to own and shoot these rifles, it is about the choice of these rifles for hunting when there are so many other excellent choices available.
Not supporting the use of these rifles for hunting has nothing to do with the belief that we have the right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment. Frankly, I like some military styled rifles for shooting; just not hunting whitetails or other "big game". Coyotes, groundhogs, feral pigs, fox, prairie dogs, and similar species, sure use them if you feel like they are your best choice for accuracy.
I would not vote for a candidate for national office who supports any additional restrictions on any rifle or handgun. I feel the same about state elections.
I remember seeing that video from one of the threads here on long range shooting. I thought the thing was in extremely poor taste no matter if eventually the shooter hit his target. The potential to wound and loose the game was too great.
Mr. White, you live in PA and you are not allowed to hunt with any of these rifles in your state. If you want the state game laws changed, why don't you rally support in PA to have the rules changed there. I voiced opinions against the fairly recently enacted state law in PA requiring all handguns to be transferred thorugh an FFL dealer. Folks in PA almost burnt me at the stake for saying such a thing as if I want criminals to gain access to firearms via private sales without the NICs check.
Yeah. Freedom of speech. We also have the freedom to boycot the magazine and the magazine's advertisers. We also have the freedom to stand up and show him the error of his ways. Freedom of Speech does not automatically lend creedence or give moral equivalent to any and all garbage that may spew forth from the mouths of those that roll over for the Brady Bunch.
22-rimfire -- "not sporting enough" and calling the AR-15 a terrorist weapon plays right into the hands of those that try to portray our 2nd Ammendment rights somehow as "Duckhunting rights only".
We all have the right to our own opinions & free speech . . . many of us have fought to defend that right. While I disagree with the presentation & content Zumbo used to express his opinion (I own several AR-type rifles, 1 for accurate varmint hunting, another as a hedge against the potential of civil insurrection, yet another because it was a deal I couldn't pass-up; all because I flat like the platform.), he is entitled to express himself. RE: "driving a wedge" between gun owners . . . only if we allow it to occur. Avoid responding in an infantile or equally as obnoxious manner as did Mr Z. Better yet, contact his sponsors & politely/tactfully express the opinion to which you are entitled as to his article. In the world of business, threats to future profit have great leverage & Zumbo's sponsors rely on gun owners/collectors/users as well as outdoorsmen/women for their ultimate livelihoods and success. Just my 0.02 worth . . . be careful we don't become what we dislike . . .
I do support them "enough". I just use my brain when I choose an appropriate rifle for whitetail hunting. Personally, I love to shoot these rifles. I never said anything about terrorist weapons in my posts.
This talk is EXACTLY the kind of thing that will divide gun owners when it comes down to casting a vote. I want no new restrictions on any right to own a firearm in this country PERIOD. I prefer a reduction in the restrictions that are in place.
Like I've said before, he has a right to express himself. However, he writes for a BUSINESS (Outdoor Life Magazine) and readers have a right to cancel subscriptions the same way they would if OLM published articles by Hillary Clinton or Sarah Brady.
The website over there is out of sync. Be forewarned that the thoughtful commentary you submit there will likely be attributed to someone else (e.g. Billary Clinton or such), while the rant of a vulgar hothead will bear your name and Email address.
Regardless, someone is going to have a VERY bad Monday.
Indeed, especially if the reader commentary is any indication. This particular blog post has generated more feedback than any of Zumbo's other recent blog posts, over 1,400 reader comments right now, with the second-most-commented-on post having 45 comments. Looks like he really stepped in it.
Rust collector is right. Incendiary, vitriolic comments don't do any good. They don't change anyone's mind and are more likely to make the anti-gun or undecided reader think "What a nut!".
I understand that from a practical hunting perspective, Zumbo has a point. I haven't hunted in years, but give me a good model 700 over an AK any day. That said, if someone wants to legally hunt with any type of firearm, go for it. Just be responsible, shoot straight, and know the limitations of your weapon.
I was not offended by Zumbo's comments that most military style semi-autos are not ideal hunting rifles; I took strong exception to his implication that possesion of them by mere civilians should not be allowed.
Well, with friends like this...
Once again, the horrible misconception that hunting comprises the entirety of firearm purpose comes out.
Even if the author doesn't believe this misconception, and only wished to dissuade hunters from using "evil weapons"
in their sport; he should know full well that any enemy of the 2nd won't be savvy to the difference and to give them
an article that even looks like anti-support is irresponsible.
Out of curiosity, what makes your brain think a .308 AR is somehow a less capable hunting rifle than a BAR, 742, 700, M70, etc. in the same caliber?
Whether a .223 AR is capable deer rifle has everything to do with the round being fired, and nothing to do with the platform it's fired from. It's a completely different discussion all together.
To those who think Zumbo has the right to say what he wants - there is no doubt about that...to think that angry responses don't have their place in response? THAT is a BIG mistake. Any pro-gun folks should be extremely POd with regards to his comments.
Let's see, we have...
"assault rifles are for terrosits"
"no sporting use for assault rifles"
"an assault rifle is a terrifying thing"
he left out...
"guns kill 8 children a day"
"only criminals carry concealed handguns"
"civilians don't need hi-cap mags"
"more guns = more crime"
"no place in society for SA firepower"
"reindeer and pigs can fly"
When someone perceived as one of our own starts spouting such obvious BS, which NO DOUBT will be used at some point by antis, he had better get over himself and his "traditionalist" elitist views damn quick, or he better stop thinking/pretending he is representing the rest of us - and let him get that message crytsal clear! :banghead:
You can NOT be angry enough!
Can some explain this guys "need" to hunt a coyote?
Oh, I know they can prey on sheep and such (but they also control vermin, etc and are a part of the chain).
Just curious why he thinks he needs to hunt them--or needs to hunt period? (I love to hunt, but I'll admit that I don't need to. )
I don't need too many of my rights when I think about it--just the same I'll keep them, even without the help of folks like this...writer guy.
Separate names with a comma.