Your speed/accuracy with different calibres

1911 has worked for me for many many years........IMO.....the best Combat platform still today. And although I have a few Gov't models....I opt to carry my Combat Commander 4.25" Bbl...

I'm best with a .22LR (one of three Rugers) and worst with .44 Magnum (Desert Eagle) but all it generally takes to get "as good as" with one compared to any other is a little "requal" work. Of course, the DE is in a class by itself and I consider it more of a field piece than an SD option.

There's so much more to it than caliber

Chamber pressure
Bullet weight
Gun weight
Grip shape
Recoil mechanism
Bore Axis
Slide weight
Recoil spring strength
... ... and that's just what comes to mind in a few moments here, there is a LOT more to it


You can find a really light 1911 that will be snappier than the M9, but the grip shape of the M9 may be a poor fit to your hand, or you might have really low pressure .45acp loaded up for poofter target loads, or either could have an out-of-spec recoil spring, or any number of things.

9mm>45>40, and the larger the grip on the gun the better. I can generally run a stock Glock 17 faster with greater overall accuracy than a production .45acp 1911 using loads that make respective PFs.

If you wanna compare speed, I suggest you try using a shot timer. But honestly, I wouldn't get too caught up in split times. Just cuz you have 17 rds doesn't mean you have to shoot them all. Gunshots don't generally have an immediate effect unless you hit the CNS. A fraction of a second difference in split times isn't very often going to make a difference unless you're making headshots on multiple armed adversaries. Eventually, you're going to wake up from that fantasy. When the bullets start flying, most people start missing. I recall a story from a competitive revolver shooter turned cop. First time he was in a shootout, his partner thought he was shooting a machine gun. He never saw someone miss 6 times that quickly.

Look at what the cops use. 40SW seems to work ok, despite higher recoil.

As mentioned, there are many variables that come into play, but the biggest one is technique.

Some work better, sometimes much better, than others.

If you want speed and you are playing a particular game, then 38 super is the apparent way to go. But that doesn't mean it would be the best in real life defense.

What is your goal?

I recently dusted off my shot count timer and took it to the plate rack. From a low ready with a .22lr I did six plates in 2.5 seconds, with a 9mm I did it in 3.0 seconds.

From low ready to the first plate was running ~0.9 seconds -- this is where I obviously need work.

tuj said:

If you want speed and you are playing a particular game, then 38 super is the apparent way to go.

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.38 Super is popular in ONE division out of SIX

But that doesn't mean it would be the best in real life defense.

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Seems to me a 125 grain JHP @ 1450 fps would be a very good defense load.

Using actual measured split times I am generally 15% faster (Double taps at 7 yd. targets with single action triggers) with a 9mm than a .40. Most people will be, less recoil, less muzzle climb. I would think the single action trigger has more to do with this particular case than the caliber. Single action triggers are generally much lighter with shorter reset than double action triggers, this has a big effect with some shooters.

In general I would say if you are faster with a 1911 in .45 than with an M9 in 9mm you are doing something wrong with the 9mm. It takes a different technique to shoot the double action pistols fast compared to a single action. I can't shoot double action pistols at all well, mainly because I don't like them and hardly ever practice with them.

I may have been the one on the .45 side of that discussion.

What I find limits my shot-to-shot speed isn't so much the caliber, but the platform.

IMO:

I suppose these days I should also ask about any differences going from low recoil ammo to +p+.

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That's the driver (cartridge load) when ammo is the issue re speed.
Next is trigger and action for speed and accuracy.
Handgun weight and balance is a big issue for speed with heavy usually allowing faster follow-on shots/target acquisition.

Now a great shooter can do it all with most any good pistol, even a concealed carry Glock. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU3jceN4JAc

Speed and accuracy both are more a product of shooter first and then gun, than they are caliber. The most accurate caliber in competition is the .22LR, so all things relative. A good trigger on a heavy steel 1911 shooting .45acp will probably be more accurate than a super lightweight subcompact 9mm. Don't put too much into caliber.
That being said, I have had some of my personal best results with a Glock 34 shooting 147gr +p Reming Golden Sabres.

I fall on the opposite end of this I guess, I'm inherently more accurate with My BHP or Hi Power (FEG, Argentine, Arcus) pattern guns than with a .45 even the Springfield that I own. At home defense distances I put more in the center mass at a faster rate using a 9mm hi power.
The fact for me is that the Hi-Power comes to bear on target more easily and reacquires target more quickly, thus I am more confident in the gun and my ability with it.

I normally shoot larger calibers and I don't think my splits are bad. When I drop down to 9mm I am lightning fast. However, I am more comfortable with something more powerful for social work, so the difference doesn't influence my choice.

I don't make downloaded ammo because that defeats the purpose of having the larger caliber. All of it is loaded to a power level associated with that caliber in a standard factory offering (no +P). There is a difference between full-house loads and purpose-made light loads, and you should be shooting something at the same power level as what you would carry.

Bovice said:

I normally shoot larger calibers and I don't think my splits are bad. When I drop down to 9mm I am lightning fast.

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What kind of splits are we talking, specifically?

I tend to shoot 9mm's and .45's faster and more accurately than .40's.

Within the 9mm's I shoot my M&P more accurately and faster than my Glock.

I shoot a full-size 1911 just a tad slower than my 9mm's, but just as accurately.

I shoot 9mm and .45acp 1911s in IDPA. In general I'm a little bit faster with the 9mm - less recoil (obviously) and it has a magwell (the .45 doesn't) and that speeds up my reloads a little.

.45 and 9mm feel good to me. .40 is snappy in my Glock 23. But I shoot it fairly well, I just don't enjoy it.

I try to pack as much power as I can before my performance degrades. I only use 9mm in mouse guns. For midsize compacts and fullsize I carry only .40-.45. Despite all the science, I feel that handguns are pretty weak, so I try to avoid 9mm, except when hard to shoot smaller guns require it.

9mm and 38 spc are the rounds I am most accurate shooting coincidentally I am also fastest with the 9 mm full size guns that I own. I am not as fast with a 38spc revolver but I shoot well with it so there you have it.
Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot Placement
get accurate, and practice drawing your weapon if you conceal carry.

In my experience with hand me down firearms or borrowed weapons I seem to be more accurate and faster for a given accuracy with a 1911 than an M9.

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The only fair way to decide on caliber is to shoot the two different calibers in guns that are as close to identical as possible.

Try shooting a .45 auto 1911 vs a 9mm para 1911 style pistol.

I'm willing to bet that, all other things being equal, you will shoot the 9mm faster and more accurately.

"better," "faster," "more accurately"......

These terms need specifics added.

Lets presume a 7 yd IPSC target, since most folks are referencing defensive pistol skills. If your split time (time between shots) with your 9mm is 1/2 second and you claim to be "faster" than your .45 acp's .75 splits, your assessment may be correct, but you seriously need to improve your technique and skills.

Then again, if you're making golf ball size groups at 7 yds instead of a centered 6-8" group, then maybe you need to reassess what'll work better in a defensive situation.

So in order to get some specific data,
let's do this:

7 yds,

IPSC target (or paper plate on a large piece of cardboard)

Start at low ready.

Using a shot timer, fire 6 rds in 8" or less.

Record times, including splits.

Compare calibers and/or guns.

Post your results.