357 vs 30-30 (brush-busting-whitetail rifle)

As much as I like the 357 mag the only way it becomes a 200 yd deer round is by reaming it out to a maximum.

Then and only then does 357 best 30-30 for deer up to 200 and only then because it'd be more versatile on smaller game with the ability to shoot specials, magnums and maximums




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If you handload, and have the single shot, 30-30 can be even more effective with pointed bullets. On the other hand .357 handloaded with slow powders tailored to a rifle barrel can get some impressive energy. Still 30-30 wins on the ballistics.

200 yds, whitetail, and .357 should not even be in the same sentence together.

I love the .357 in a rifle and have three, but I would not shoot deer with it at that distance. .30/30 is a much better choice. Get some Leverevolution and you will be good to go.

The .357 really comes into its own in a levergun but it will never be a 200yd cartridge for anything but blasting at inanimate objects. If 200yd shots are in the cards, the .30-30 is your best choice between the two.

On the other hand .357 handloaded with slow powders tailored to a rifle barrel can get some impressive energy.

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The usual suspects that yield the highest velocities in revolvers will also yield the highest velocities in rifles. Powders are chosen for the cartridge and its pressure range, not barrel length.

The 30-30 gives more reach. That is a classic.
Some people have compared the 7.62x39 and even the .300 whisper/blackout to this but they are not even close and people to lazy to look it up.
Teh 30-30 can drive a 150gr bullet at the same speeds the 7.62x39 can drive a 123gr bullet and even a tad faster. The blackout even less.
The .357 is an amazing option too but then it doesn't have the range due to difference in ballistics and terminal performance.
For close brush hunting either one but for the occasional 200 yards shot then the 30-30.

No such thing as "brush busting" bullets. Myth.

What counts is the distance from some limb in the brush to the target. Even a .45-70 bullet will deflect. If the brush is close to the target, even pointed bullets can hit close to the general point of aim.

But comparing .357 to .30-30, the .30-30 is bunches more Oomph.

I agree with you Art. I meant in the sense that those scenarios normally imply closer ranges line in the norther woods here but one should not be shooting through bushes.

CraigC said:

The usual suspects that yield the highest velocities in revolvers will also yield the highest velocities in rifles. Powders are chosen for the cartridge and its pressure range, not barrel length.

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I agree that case/bore ratio and bullet weight have the most to do with it, but you can sneak a little more out by using a powder like lil' gun. Not one of the best performers out of a 4"(no slouch either), but a heck of a powder in a 16" carbine.

.30-30 will be a better all-around hunting cartridge.

And with Hornady's LEVERevolution, you get a nice little leap in bullet performance.

If your range was 100 yds max, I'd say get whichever gun you liked better.
Being that your range could extend to 200 yds, don't even consider the .357 mag. I may get some flaming for this, but IMO, 200 yds is getting close to the limit of the .30-30. I realize that the new Hornady stuff shoots a little flatter than most rounds tailored for the rifle, but it's wheelhouse is still 150 and in.

And go ahead and get that "brush busting" thought out of your head. That round doesn't exist. If there's brush between you and the deer, don't shoot.

I would take the .30-30 for deer over the .357.....

I might(very rarely)also shoot a few rabbits and squirrels.

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And I would take neither for that role. Ever.

I was thinking that too allaroundhunter. Squirrels generally reside in trees (I know that's news to everyone) and I don't think I would go shooting either up into the air.

I was thinking that too allaroundhunter. Squirrels generally reside in trees (I know that's news to everyone) and I don't think I would go shooting either up into the air.

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That was the main thing.....and then I also like being able to find/eat what I shoot

Even a .22 Mag is borderline too much gun for tree rats.

In a handy rifle and assuming you reload you have a vast array of boat tail sharp nosed hunting rounds in the .308 bullet size which could be used in a .30-30 case.

For varmints and small game load up some light handgun powder rounds with 100 to 110gn bullets intended to be used in the .30 Carbine ammo. Powder them up so they come out at around 900 to 1000 fps and it should do nicely on the smaller stuff. Some testing might be needed to find out how it works with the rifling twist rate. But if it works you've got a wide range of options in the world of .308 bullets.

Just be sure that the pointy stuff doesn't find it's way into a lever rifle that has a tubular magazine.

the 30-30 unless your 357 is a 35 Remington///

With the parameters you've laid out, I agree with others on the .30-30. However, the ranges that I think of with a brush gun are more like 80 yards and less. In that case, I think either would be fine.

On a scale of 1 to 10, for your intended use, with 1 being the worst:

357...1.75

30-30...9.75

Both are deer capable within their range limitations and the right load.

I actually wouldn't choose either as a brush round, though.

the 30-30 is better for what the op described, I chose a 357 levergun years ago just because I owned a 357 revolver.

Turned out the levergun shot better with reloads, slower powder (lil gun) which was too slow for the 4" revolver. So I had two different types of ammo anyway

firesky101 said:

I agree that case/bore ratio and bullet weight have the most to do with it, but you can sneak a little more out by using a powder like lil' gun. Not one of the best performers out of a 4"(no slouch either), but a heck of a powder in a 16" carbine.

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The only reason that this works in the .357 and some of the other handgun cartridges is that the "normal" load with standard pistol powders leaves a lot of empty space in the case. Even a full load of H110 only fills the case about 2/3 full. Going to a slower powder that can take advantage of that space to reach full pressure (but actually needs some barrel and the absence of a cylinder gap to make it happen) will perform better in a carbine. The difference isn't huge though and the carbine loads will not perform well from a pistol eliminating the interchangeable ammo capability which makes the .357 an appealing carbine cartridge in the first place.

Even with the best loads, though the .30-30 is the better deer cartridge. More energy and sectional density up close and when you factor in something like the Leverevolution ammo that offer an increase of 33% in ballistic coefficient with no reduction in velocity compared to a standard 150gn RN or FP load, you get a rifle that is not reaching to make a clean kill out to around 200yds.

Why choose between them?

Ream your 357 Handi chamber to 35-30/30 (35/30) or rebore your 30-30 to .35 cal ($250 returned from JES).

Cheap available brass that is easily formed by neck sizing alone and for which reasonably priced dies are available, like $60 from CH4D, a rimmed cartridge which Handi's prefer, and the ability to load 300 gr gas checked hard cast bullets to 1800 fps at one end of the spectrum or 200 gr jacketed spitzers to 2,400 fps at the other. You get a 100 yd brush busting thumper and a very effective 200 yd rifle with a change in load.

Muzzlelover said:

which would you choose the 357 mag. or the 30-30,either one would be in a h&r handi-rifle.the farthest shot would be 200 yds. (the savage axis that I was talking about is supposed to be a gift)I might(very rarely)also shoot a few rabbits and squirrels.Thank ya.

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That is a no-brainer, the .30 WCF no if &`s or buts...............