Want to Love Her But it's Just not Happening

THe rules of 3

I to love M1, M14, M1A and all their cousins....
That said, it is the rules of 3s that make the 5.56 a must have.

You can last:
30 days without food
3 days without water
3 minutes without air

But you can not last 3 Ephing Seconds without AMMO.

You can carry a lot more 5.56 than you can 7.62/

Every time you pull the trigger on that M1A, you are saying goodbye to around $0.59.

Every time you pull the trigger on an AR, you are saying goodbye to around $0.33 for brass cased ammo, $0.26 for steel. So for the same money, you can pull the trigger on the AR twice as often.

In reality, there are going to be poodle shooter days, and real rifle days, depending on what kind of ammo you have on hand and the state of your finances. I find that I shoot my AR about 3-4X as many rounds as my Garand.

I see yours is similar to my Sport.

Honestly, it just gets used as a plinker at the range. I don't hunt or use it as a HD carbine, nor use it for competition. If x39 was easily reloadable I'd rather have a VZ 58, but alas.

My Garand is more fun to shoot, especially a steel at the 350 yard. THWACK!

Mags are fairly inexpensive, the platform is simple, the ammo is cheap, variety of ammo is out there, the rifle is light, sleek, controllable, and quick, if you don't like its probably a safe bet you haven't ran the thing hard enough to see what it can do, if your talking about defese under 300 meters, its hard to bet a 5.56 platform, i had to build an ar15 before i realized how amazing the design is

For me the main attraction points are as follows:

Cost of ammunition
Ease of installing accessories
Weight of entire system
Accuracy
Versatility

The AR-15 is a modular system and is very easy to add accessories such as a scope. There is no drilling and tapping required. With the right barrel, one can easily reach out to 500 yards + with 5.56 ammunition. The platform as a whole is lighter and more compact than an M1A. I will hand it to the M1A though on rock solid toughness.

Asia, I'm with you on this one. Had two nice AR's and let them go, the weapon just didn't do it for me. But my M1A, Garand and 03A3 are here to stay.

You're not alone!

Your dilemma is an emotional issue searching for a rational argument. If you love the wood/steel battle rifle but not the carbine, no conversation of ballistics, economy, or efficiency will change that.

I will point out though that a benefit to the AR is you can make it whatever you want. Change the cartridge that it shoots, the sight arrangement, barrel length, grips and stocks. Imagination and money are the only restrictions. However, if in the end you want to make it another M1A, skip the hassle and stick with what you know.

Not a flame piece.
I need some help brothers..seriously. Having some real head problems trying to fall in love with my new Windham MPC. Having been a long time M-1A guy (still am)) this carbine is just not eliciting any passion in me. Spare me the "sell it to me" responses please. Just tell me what's so great about this carbine over a larger bore such as the M-1 / M1A series.

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68wj is right.

There's no life requirement that you have to own, or like, ARs. I went through half a dozen ARs ranging from cheap plinkers to high-end customs, before I truly accepted that the AR just isn't for me.

However, there are reasons that the ARs are king of the competitions and why tactical types use them. The ability to customize is endless with the AR. If you need a lot of ammo, or are going to be packing it around a lot, it makes sense. It's simple to operate, and to clean. Due to the available parts, ammo and accessories, it also makes sense for those with "TEOTW" fantasies.

If you're just buying one because everyone raves about them and you feel insecure when all your range buddies laugh when you tell them you don't own an AR, then there isn't much point in owning one. If you get a purpose for it, then it makes a bit more sense.

Split the difference and get a 30 caliber AR or similar. I prefer the x39 cartridge over the 223, but in the end, they can all be fun I suppose.

However, to me, the real man's rifle is my PTR91. Love the 7.62 NATO! That and the 155 Amax bullets with a charge of powder they like shoot amazing small little groups.

It's a bit difficult to start my wife and boys on something as big as an M1A. But I can start them shooting on an M-4 with a .22 upper at a VERY early age.

I also took a long time to begin appreciating AR's compared to my Garands, M1 Carbine and M14. I bought my first AR used and cheap, almost as a novelty. Bust as kingcheese mentioned, the more I worked on them, the more I started to see the brilliance in the design of the whole thing and my appreciation for them grew.. The AR hasn't become my favorite rifle but I have found that I like and shoot them far more than I expected. Some of the things I like about AR's are the economy, light weight and the great shooting "range qualities" of the rifle/cartridge combination.

The thing I like about the AR platform is how versatile it is. You can buy 22uppers for a decent price and pling all day, have a 223/556 upper for short to mid range hunting or plinking, you can step up to a wssm upper for hunting, if you want to run longer range target you can have a Grendel upper for it. That's all on the small frame. Step up to a 308 lower and you can shoot lots of different ammo and rounds.
A pair or mine both 223

I also have a 6.8spcll and a 243wssm

Move it on to where it can be loved and get something that does it for you. There's nothing wrong with "I tried it and didn't like it" (well, in the confines of this discussion anyway...) Maybe try VEPR and see if steel and wood and a low cost cartridge works for you?

But you can not last 3 Ephing Seconds without AMMO.

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Lefteyedom hit it right on the head. While I am not a fan of the 223/5.56, I shoot 20 times more of them than any other caliber, it is a much more useful caliber (with the exception of big game) than many others. Price wise, weight wise and gets the job done within 150 yards. If you are in love with a M1A or M-14 then you haven't had to cary one around for any extended time.

Change the fore end and the stock add a red dot and laser and you will fall in love again.
Jim

Kind of a trollish post.....

If you dont like it then dont keep it, pretty simple.

asia331 said:

Not a flame piece.
I need some help brothers..seriously. Having some real head problems trying to fall in love with my new Windham MPC. Having been a long time M-1A guy (still am)) this carbine is just not eliciting any passion in me. Spare me the "sell it to me" responses please. Just tell me what's so great about this carbine over a larger bore such as the M-1 / M1A series.

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I have no clue what is so great about any AR 15 rifle? I have a few M1 Garands, an M1A NM, an AR 10 NM rifle and a few AR 15 rifles. I enjoy shooting all of them and if for a moment I did not enjoy shooting them they would be gone in a heartbeat. Each individual rifle has an intended purpose and personally I have no favorite go to rifle in the lot.

So you bought a new Windham MPC rifle correct? Had you shot many AR 15 type rifles before buying it? Something motivated you to buy it correct? Try shooting it more you may come to like it and if not, well then consider other options. What do you find yourself disliking about the rifle?

As to the cost of ammunition? I load for what I have as well as using store bought ammunition. Some of what I load for accuracy likely exceeds the cost of store bought ammunition. I began shooting at age 8 in 1958 and as I recall ammunition was much cheaper back then. I do not let the cost of ammunition get in the way of my enjoyment of shooting and come the day it does I will reserve my last round to just shoot myself. Really matters not if each trigger squeeze with premium .308 runs a buck and a half or each trigger squeeze with 5.56 or .223 runs $.50 as long as I am enjoying myself. It's like going on vacation and trying to keep a tight budget and not spend any money. May as well stay home.

Spare me the "sell it to me" responses please. Just tell me what's so great about this carbine over a larger bore such as the M-1 / M1A series.

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Nothing but nothing is great about it. You either like it or more important enjoy shooting it or you don't. Just a matter of personal preference. As I mentioned, something drew you to buy it, I have no clue what. If you can't find something to like about the rifle do not sell it to me as I already have a few. I suggest you shoot it more and if when all is said and done you still don't feel drawn to it or really enjoy it then get rid of it. The only thing important is not what myself or anyone else likes shooting but what you enjoy shooting.

Just My Take
Ron

Buy a Mini 14 and combine your favored platform with the 5.56.

I'd suggest a couple of weeks of Paxil, then be happy with the caliber that consistently beats the other at Camp Perry!

Along with what was said about ammo weight and ammo cost, the AR is just a lot better suited for close quarters shooting. It is lighter and shorter. Also, with both guns shooting ball ammo, the 5.56 actually tends to produce more devastating wounds under 175 yards or so than a high powered rifle, due to the fact that the light, high velocity bullet dumps energy so fast that it fragments inside the target at this kind of range. That also means it has really low tendency to penetrate hard barriers (like drywall and brick), which along with it's size and weight, makes it a great choice for home defense.

The AR does not having anything "over" the larger bore guns, but it is different. It is smaller and lighter. The 5.56 cartridge is smaller and uses less powder and costs less, but it is a capable little cartridge. It will reach out past 500 yards and when you use hunting bullets it will deliver devastating results on medium sized animals.

For me, my AR is my "go to" long gun. I know I can reliably hit anything I can see from point blank out to 450 yards (the max at my range), and I can do it quickly with 30 round magazines. All in a handy package that is relatively economical to shoot.

But if you think a 10 pound gun is light/handy and .308/.30 06 ammo is affordable, then there is no objective reason for you to go with an AR IMO.

Why not have the best of both worlds? Modern construction and materials. Accurate and at 8 lbs, on par with some of the Hbar Ar15 models...I give you the SCAR 17 !

You can all applause now...

As for ARs or. 223 caliber weapons, my wallet dictates that I like them if I want to have some decent range time. I shoot my. 308 between "sets".

If you want bigger bore, 300black out can be used but price rises quick, there ain't a whole lot you can't do with an ar and decent ammo, and if you want wood it seems to me that i seen some wood sets out there, also, I'm gonna be blunt, i hate the colopsable stocks, they feel horrible to me, the ar is an amazing platform, it just takes a lot of time abusing one to get over the plastic(at least in my case)

I to love M1, M14, M1A and all their cousins....
That said, it is the rules of 3s that make the 5.56 a must have.

You can last:
30 days without food
3 days without water
3 minutes without air

But you can not last 3 Ephing Seconds without AMMO.

You can carry a lot more 5.56 than you can 7.62/


True but it takes a LOT fewer rounds of 7.62 to end the day.

Buy a Mini 14 and combine your favored platform with the 5.56.

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I also prefer a Garand action to AR type rifles. A Mini-14 is a nice choice.
If you want a rifle that splits the difference, try a Mini-Thirty in 7.62x39.