Deltaboy1984
Member
That PD just opened themselves up for a LawSuit.
So, keep your hardware hidden. Then, you can give the bad-guys a nasty surprise when they discover that they are not the only ones with a gun.
name a SINGLE reported case.... back up your claim. You act like it happens all the time
Why do people feel the need to make up scenarios that either don't happen at all, or happen very, very, very rarely
You might be correct but when seconds count the Police are minutes away.The largest group of people who open carry in this country are law enforcement officers (who are also trained in passive and active weapons retention measures, which your average open carrying civilian is neither trained on or particularly cognizant of). Google "police officer killed with own gun" for a lengthy list of cases where open carry translated to the carrier being wounded or killed by an assailant with their own weapon. PoliceOne puts the stat at 8% of police shooting deaths involve the officer's own weapon -- and, again, that is in a population that receives specific training concerning retention of openly carried weapons.
People who've never had to fight to retain an openly carried weapon just don't grasp how much vulnerability and how big a potential target you slap on yourself by open carrying. Personally I prefer to stack the deck in my favor and, as an LEO I had body armor, intermediate weapons, a radio/back up and other multipliers that more than offset the risks inherent to an open carried pistol. As a civilian, surprise is one of a limited set of options to rebalance an equation that goes pear shaped.
To be fair, these open-carrying officers are involved in a lot more confrontations where a gun-grab may happen than a typical citizen will ever experience. Which is why they open-carry in the first place--they have a higher likelihood of needing that weapon so quickly that no cover-garment can be afforded (well, that, and the "intimidation factor"). I'd rather see stats --knowing they probably don't exist-- showing incident rates among open carriers vs. concealed. Even state-level stats for concealed-only vs. non- states wouldn't be helpful, because of the larger numbers of concealers in both.The largest group of people who open carry in this country are law enforcement officers
But doesn't Brady say we're more likely to be killed with our own gun, anyway? What percentage of citizen shooting deaths (omitting suicides if PoliceOne does) involve their own weapon? And for the 64000$ question, how many officers needed the extra second-or-so that open-carry rig bought them on their draw?PoliceOne puts the stat at 8% of police shooting deaths involve the officer's own weapon
You might be correct but when seconds count the Police are minutes away.
blakeci said:name a SINGLE reported case.... back up your claim. You act like it happens all the time
I don't understand why there is a discussion about open versus concealed carry here, unless you know of a way to effectively conceal an AR15 on your person and have it readily accessible on a hike. There are plenty of other threads discussing the merits of concealed versus open carry of handguns.I'm not saying carry of firearms should be set aside because the police will always be there, I'm just saying that for me, personally, if I'm carrying as a private citizen, I want to have the element of surprise on my side and be able to introduce a firearm into a personal defense shooting at a time of my choiosing rather than a bad guy knowing it is there from the start.
+1I'm not saying carry of firearms should be set aside because the police will always be there, I'm just saying that for me, personally, if I'm carrying as a private citizen, I want to have the element of surprise on my side and be able to introduce a firearm into a personal defense shooting at a time of my choiosing rather than a bad guy knowing it is there from the start.
Please ensure you never carry books or newspapers without a camoflauging cover. Otherwise, you might disturb sensitive, ignorant people.IMHO: Anybody who carries a firearm outside their clothing, and who is not working on a ranch or other such enterprise, is being extremely foolish. When bad-guys go into a place to rob it and the patrons, who does anybody think will be the FIRST people they shoot? Yes. The ones with the exposed guns.
So, keep your hardware hidden. Then, you can give the bad-guys a nasty surprise when they discover that they are not the only ones with a gun.
And that demographic is also wearing rather distinctive clothing, and directly confronting criminals.The largest group of people who open carry in this country are law enforcement officers (who are also trained in passive and active weapons retention measures, which your average open carrying civilian is neither trained on or particularly cognizant of). Google "police officer killed with own gun" for a lengthy list of cases where open carry translated to the carrier being wounded or killed by an assailant with their own weapon. PoliceOne puts the stat at 8% of police shooting deaths involve the officer's own weapon -- and, again, that is in a population that receives specific training concerning retention of openly carried weapons.
People who've never had to fight to retain an openly carried weapon just don't grasp how much vulnerability and how big a potential target you slap on yourself by open carrying. Personally I prefer to stack the deck in my favor and, as an LEO I had body armor, intermediate weapons, a radio/back up and other multipliers that more than offset the risks inherent to an open carried pistol. As a civilian, surprise is one of a limited set of options to rebalance an equation that goes pear shaped.
And that demographic is also wearing rather distinctive clothing, and directly confronting criminals.
Now cite to statistically meaningful numbers of instances of Jane/Joe Citizen being done in for open carry, by criminals.
I won’t claim it’s common, but it does happen.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/t...cle_970e24e7-dd5d-57e7-8fb8-a64a0a2b26ba.html
Originally Posted by dogtown tom
Sgt Grisham failed to understand that Texas law regarding open carry of firearms is poorly written and does not provide him with the free pass he thinks it does.
The difference between his situation and yours was that what he was doing is legal. You were doing illegal activities.
If I'm doing something that's within the law, I'm not going to stop because some idiot either doesn't know the law, or doesn't like what I'm doing.
Well, apparently the way the law is written, it isn't exactly a clear-cut case of him obeying the law. Also, I'm not saying we should roll over and let the police do whatever they want, but you don't win fights with police on the streets, period. You win them in court. If you want to be belligerent with them while they're arresting you, fine, they'll call in back-up and have all the more witnesses on their side of the issue, and it only makes a better case for them when they want to say you were not compliant.
How is most of this outrage fluff? Military hero or just John Q. Citizen his rights were violated!
You are right about his military status, it doesn't matter! HIS CIVIL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED! RIGHT IN FRONT OF A TROOP OF BOY SCOUTS! WHAT DOES THAT TEACH THEM ABOUT OUR CONSTITUTION & OUR CIVIL RIGHTS?
Grisham’s trouble with the law started in mid-March. His son Chris was working on one of the final merit badges he needed to become an Eagle Scout. Chris had chosen hiking.
Father and son grabbed their gear and headed out on a blustery Saturday morning to hike about 10 miles. They were midway through the trip when Grisham turned around and saw a police car.
Well, apparently the way the law is written, it isn't exactly a clear-cut case of him obeying the law. Also, I'm not saying we should roll over and let the police do whatever they want, but you don't win fights with police on the streets, period. You win them in court. If you want to be belligerent with them while they're arresting you, fine, they'll call in back-up and have all the more witnesses on their side of the issue, and it only makes a better case for them when they want to say you were not compliant.
That was the point I made, but Grisham is playing emotional issues to gain favor for his cause.
You guys should really stay on topic. This is not about Colorado law or about OC vs. CC.
This case is about the police infringing on somebody's rights. The police were in the wrong and even they admit it based upon what they charged MSG Grisham with. Their charge against him is not weapons related and I suspect that they will lose a civil case.
As an American and especially as a Texan I'm appalled by this and hope that a message is sent loud and clear to those who desire to trample on our rights.
The escalation and results were wrong, that happens quite often when people do not comply 100% with police. Even when people are in the right and stand on their rights it leads to escalation. That is a general police issue and not a topic for THR though.