.40 S&W, TiteGroup, and 180 JHP loads

From the Hodgdon website:
Cartridge: 40 S&W
Load Type: Pistol
Starting Loads
Maximum Loads

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
180 GR. BERB FP Hodgdon Titegroup .400" 1.125" 4.2 901 27,400 PSI 4.7 988 31,900 PSI
180 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .400" 1.125" 4.2 877 26,500 PSI 4.7 978 33,300 PSI

The Hornady (HDY) XTP's are JHP. Looks like 4.2-4.7 is your recommended load. As always, start low and don't exceed max loads.

Stay safe and welcome to THR

I will ad this also. BE VERY, VERY careful!! A lot of guys load 40s&w with TG, but it's very spiky, and can cause major problems. I wouldn't even try to work up a load. Instead I would load 15-20 rounds with 4.2gr (exact), and see how they function with your hand gun. If you need to go up, I would only work up to about 4.3gr. It's very easy to double charge TG in a 40 case which make a very nice finger robbing bomb. I have seen 2 Kabooms this year in IDPA matches. Both cases I asked if they were loading TG, and the response was "Yes". I loaded about 1500 rounds 2 years ago with TG, but ended up settling for WST, which shoots just as nice, cleaner, not a spiky (dangerous), and not near as hot. TG runs very hot also.

That said a lot of competition shooters use TG. I can't recommend a new Loader use TG knowing the results of using TG in such a high pressure load if they make a mistake. I would choose a slower powder like W231/HP38, WSF, or if you want to load a faster, but safer powder, then load WST.

What gahunter12 says is true with respect to TG and the fact it does run quite hot, and it will NOT forgive you one iota if you double-charge or even try to push it hard. Its therapeutic window is indeed quite narrow.

That said, I began my reloading hobby about four years ago loading .357 Magnums with Montana Gold 125-grain JHP's and 7.2 grains of TiteGroup, lit with Federal 200 magnum primers. And I'm still alive.

As for the 500 9mm's with the starting load of TG mentioned- personally, I would not sweat it and shoot them.

gahunter12 said:

MadOtis said:

should I worry about the 500 rounds of 9mm I finished earlier today? They are 125 FMJ and I used 4.1grains of the same (TiteGroup) powder. That is the starting load listed for this bullet. Wifey shoots these, do I need to worry about sleeping on the couch for a few months?

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I will add this also. BE VERY, VERY careful!! ... it's very spiky, and can cause major problems.

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Many reloaders will caution against Titegroup because of narrow start/max range. If you are planning to use Titegroup near max load data, you want to make sure your scale is "really" accurately reading to 0.1 grain.

For 9mm, Hodgdon lists 4.1-4.4 of Titegroup as start/max charges for 125 gr FMJ at 1.090" OAL. If you are loading at more typical 1.125"-1.135" OAL, you should be fine at 4.1 gr. I use 4.0 gr of Titegroup with 124/125 gr jacketed/plated RN bullets at 1.135" OAL. Produces accurate loads that reliably cycle the slides in various pistols.

What I would recommend whether you are using Titegroup for 9mm, 40S&W or 45ACP etc. is to check neck tension for bullet setback. With fast burning powders like Titegroup, bullet setback can increase chamber pressures in a hurry (can you say KaBoom?). In many previous THR threads, we discussed work hardening and "spring back" of brass cases from multiple reloadings and varying thickness of case wall adding to the neck tension issue. So if you use mixed range pick up brass like we all do, exercise caution, especially with 40S&W and Titegroup. As gahunter suggested, with mixed range brass with unknown reload history and condition of brass, I would also suggest the use of start charge of Titegroup until you gain some more reloading knowledge and experience. Better to be safe ...

My QC check for checking neck tension is to lock the slide back and measure the OALs of the cartridge before and after I load the round from the magazine. If you see significant reduction in OAL, you have neck tension issue that will seat the bullet base deeper in the case and increase chamber pressures. Even if you are at lower charge load data, you can exceed max chamber pressures with bullet setback.

gahunter12 said:

I wouldn't even try to work up a load. Instead I would load 15-20 rounds with 4.2gr (exact), and see how they function with your hand gun. If you need to go up, I would only work up to about 4.3gr

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Once again, how accurate is your powder charge/scale? Do you have check weights to verify the accuracy/consistency of your scale? For 40S&W, Hodgdon lists 4.2-4.7 gr of Titegroup as start/max for 180 gr Hornady XTP/HP bullet at 1.125" OAL. With 40S&W bullets, OAL can be critical. Be sure to check the neck tension by measuring the OALs before and after loading the round from the magazine. With Truncated/HP nose bullets, I use 1.125"-1.130" OAL and 4.3 gr Titegroup but if you need to use shorter OAL to work in your pistol/barrel (like 1.120"), I would start at even lower charges like 4.0 gr.

Be safe.

If you are at the starting charge, and you 100% sure about your powder throws, which you should be any way I wouldnt be too concerned. I have seen threads on fourms about 9mm KB's, but most of the KB's are with .40s&w, and a pretty large % of them are Gen1 or Gen2 Glocks. I can't remember seeing a 9mm KB at a match. Just pay close attention to your brass looking for Glock smiley faces, cracks or other potential signs of weak brass. Make sure you have a good light over your press, and look in every single case when dropping powder.

40s&w is such a high pressure load. With TG being a spiky powder that tends to have pressure spikes up front, you have to really watch it when getting close to the 4.7gr limit. Like I said TG is a great shooting powder, but we have so many other great powders to choose from. Just do a google on TG and .40s&w.

Great. Good to see new reloader starting out with caution.

As to Lyman #49, unfortunately it doesn't list Titegroup for 40S&W. Now, some may say there are good reasons why Lyman chose not to test Titegroup for 40S&W.

Titegroup can produce accurate target/match loads, but for 40S&W, many will recommend slower burn rate than W231/HP-38/Unique powders as more suitable powders. Personally, I prefer to use W231/HP-38 for 40S&W at mid-range load data for target loads and slower burn rate powders like Universal/WSF/AutoComp for full power loads.

However, I may need to go get a copy of the Lyman #49 just for the powder section (from what I've read)... sounds like I need to study that.

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Lyman #49 is a great book, but word of caution. Lyman's #49th manual used a .40 s&w barrel with a bore size of .401" instead of .400". There for if you will reference other manuals, and Hodgdon's website, you will notice Lyman usually recommends slightly higher charges than other resources for 40s&w. Hence the reason to have more than one resource to pull from.

MadOtis said:

Given what you've just posted, should I worry about the 500 rounds of 9mm I finished earlier today? They are 125 FMJ and I used 4.1grains of the same (TiteGroup) powder. That is the starting load listed for this bullet. Wifey shoots these, do I need to worry about sleeping on the couch for a few months?

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You did test those starting charge weight loads in 9mm before loading 500, right?

um... no, not yet. I was planning on heading to the range this weekend (after I get back from a local-ish gun-show).

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And what happens if they dont have enough ooomph to cycle the slide on your pistol? NEVER load that many rounds until you have tested it. I like to load up 10 or so of each charge weight while working up a load. Many times you will have minimum charge weights that wont cycle the action. Sometimes they will burn so dirty that its not funny. I hope you get lucky this time.

Thought about Titegroup but am using Longshot instead. Be careful with Titegroup as others have said. Welcome to the reloading world.

A big concern with Titegroup and 40 SW using a 180 grain bullet is not only to be sure of your powder measure weight, but also your seating depth of the bullet. Just a slight increase in seating depth can raise the pressure a lot!

Did you say what brand of bullet? Also, what gun? Is it a Glock?
(not bashing Glock) Unsupported chambers, although the newer ones are better I think.

The collet type bullet puller is a bite on 9mm not so fun at all been there done that.

Yes, the FN has a good barrel so that is one less concern. The data in LEE is compiled from other sources. LEE never tested anything so their data should be the same as the powder companies.

Bottom line. how are you measuring or weighing your powder? The whole issue is TG is such a fast powder and very dense so it is easy to overcharge with it and in the 40 SW that is not a good thing. Some even believe it is better to use the lighter 165 grain bullet as there is less of it in the case so seating depth does not cause a big pressure spike.

As mentioned, there are better powders for a new reloader to use especially with the 40SW.

Find some HP38 or Win 231 (same powder) works for just about anything.

180 grain JHP and Titegroup

Well as an FYI. We run 4.0 Titegroup behind 180gr Precision Delta FMJFN. It Chronographs at around 935fps and I haven't seen too much problem with bullet seat depth. We run ours long though at 1.158 - 1.160. I have pushed the back as far as 1.140 and only recorded a 50fps jump.

You will not determine anything by weighing loaded rounds. There is to0 much variance in case and bullet weight.

Get a loading block, charge all your cases with powder and look at all 50 with a flashlight and glasses (if you wear them) then put a bullet in each one and seat them.

I know that Titegroup is economical, but I don't like it because it has a lot of static-cling, and it really heats up your gun. It is also a very compact powder and would be easy to double (or even triple) charge.