6mm's vs 6.5mm's

I bought the Sweed:
1. Wanted a lower recoil rifle that nevertheless had enough punch to knock something down.
2. History.
3. Someday I'd like to get the corrosponding Mauser.
4. I was comparing it to what I read (mostly on THR) for loading purposes. Then I discovered the TTSX and found what for CA may be the perfect hunting round (then I started to learn about the 7x57 and 7mm-08... The last round might be the PHR, but I have the Swede now so...

Greg

I'm kinda partial with the 6.5mm calibers. With a bolt action,I'd definitely choose the 6.5 Creedmoor,but the 260 Remington is a good choice also.
I shoot a 260 Remington in a DPMS LR series rifle,and have built two custom 6.5 Creedmoor bolt actions,as well as a 6.5-06 bolt action. I recently built a SIX5 AR-15,which is a 6.8 SPC case necked down and shortened .020".

I don't see the Creedmoor as a fad,I've been shooting it for 9 years since it came out on the market. It has the advantage over the 260 when it comes to having a COAL that fits into a bolt action magazine when loading the long 140 gr match bullets like the Berger VLD's out to the barrel lands. Most 260's will turn into a single shot rifle when trying to shoot the longer bullets.
The 260 has an advantage with better available brass,but you can fire form 22-250 Lapua brass for the 6.5 Creedmoor,so it just takes a little more work to have great 6.5 Creedmoor brass.

The 6.5x55 is a great old school cartridge,but since it requires a longer action,you might as well go with a 6.5x284 or 6.5-06 to fill up the action length and get better performance.

Bme27;

I've had both. The first was a 6mm Remington, everything the .243 wants to be when it grows up. And the second is a 6.5 X 55mm Swedish Mauser. I've obviously already made my choice, and it was the Swede.

I live & hunt in Montana. The Swede is perfectly able to cleanly take big game from deer to elk & I hunt elk with mine every year. It's not a short-range elk cartridge either, the energy is there out to about 500 yards to do the job given the shot. Three hundred yards or less, doesn't matter.

For P-dogs, coyotes & such, the .223 does fine, don't really miss the 6mm. Don't get me wrong though, it's a fine cartridge that doesn't get the credit it deserves. But between the two it's no contest for me.

900F

You have to be working off a pretty small case family before 6mm starts looking good for general applications. The crossover point is about the .308 case family - .243 and .260/6.5CM have very similar applications. The 4 million 6mm Benchrest variants are all about the same, and they do their thing fine.

I have several 6.5mm guns and no 6mm guns - primarily because I have zero interest in benchrest or the associated wildcatting, and the game around here is big enough .243 is limited.

Have you though about the 6.5 Grendel they are shoot them at 1000 yards?

6mm: .243 on a short action.
6.5mm: 6.5x55 Swedish or 6.5x55 Ackley Improved.

Mike

Have you though about the 6.5 Grendel they are shoot them at 1000 yards?

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I'm currently working on a 6.5 Grendel build. Haven't shot it yet (just have the upper, no lower yet) so I can't say how well it works. If you like the AR platform it makes alot of sense. If you're going with a bolt gun probably .260 or 6.5 Creed or even the .243 make more sense.

I'm very tempted to do an RPD build in 6.5 Grendel, since the cases fit RPD links just dandy (result would be a SAW-type LMG that shoots similar to an M240 down range). Similar situation for a VZ52 action I need to replace the barrel on, since its 7.62x45 magazine would be able to accommodate much longer OALs than the AR platform (and I think x45 is pretty close to the Grendel taper as-is)

The round seems quite compelling for the niche-like job of "making smaller guns shoot like larger guns" (by which I mean trajectory and to a lesser extent down-range energy). You obviously don't always need a smaller gun to reach as far as a much larger one, but it's cool that there is something available for a rifle as compact as an AR that can reliably perform at what we normally consider 308 distances (this goes for several of the ~6mm intermediate offerings, of course)

TCB

The 6mm Remington is NOT a short action round. Just to clear the air.....

JMHO

I have had most of the mentioned calibers. From personal experience I have to rate the 6.5's as near perfect for deer. This is after 14 deer taken with a 243 over the last few seasons. I have had a Swede, a 260, and two Creedmoors. I can load 100 gr Noslers and make them sizzle or load a 160gr round nose and go after moose.

When choosing a 6.5 you need to take availability of ammo and reloading components into consideration. It took some major searching to find brass for my Creedmoors and ammo selection is pretty limited. Same for the 260 and the Grendel. On the other hand, 243 brass is available everywhere and ammo is sold in a variety of weights and bullets.

Fella's;

I've been reloading the Swede for decades & never had too much of a problem finding components. There might be a temporary shortage this instant, but I'm sitting on enough stuff that I can ride it out, no problem. Swede factory ammo is always available in the LGS's around here also. However, since American factory ammo is always loaded light, you're far better off to roll yer own.

And, FWIW, Brownell's announced t'other day that they have 6mm Remington brass in stock. The 6mm Remington is based on the 7X57mm Mauser, and is a standard length action round. It holds more powder than the .243, and therefore does better with heavier bullets. In my old gun I found that the Speer 90 grain spitzer gave me the best of both worlds. Due to it's lighter weight it could be driven faster, but Speer made it extra tough to accommodate the older 244 Remington guns that couldn't stabilize a heavier bullet.

900F

I should have also specified that this will be on a bolt gun. I am looking hard at the 6.5 creedmoor or just keeping it a .243. I am interested on any caliber in the 6mm family or the 6.5 family since I have the 30 cal and 7mm ones covered. This will not be a primary hunting rifle, I do reload but don't want to form any brass. I was curious if I had skipped over an old classic, or if there ones some newer caliber or lesser known one that would be better for targets, potentially competitions, and long range shooting.

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.243 (or maybe 6mm Remington if you want something more unique) is what I'd go with given that criteria

Of course with that...the 6.5x300WBY... Sure to kill anything in your path including your wallet...

Greg

Given the fact you are a handloader and are willing to load for the 6.5CR makes your decision pretty simple. Find a bolt action rifle you like in 6.5 Creedmoor. I see no indications that it is a passing fad. It fact just the opposite.






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As I contemplate entering into the 6.5mm world (and it seems there are 2 camps - those that have and those that will), I'm leaning hard toward the .260. The simple fact that you can make your brass from .308 means that's one less component you're hunting for

Bme27;

I'll suggest that you contact USSR here on THR (post #6 this thread) he's done what you are contemplating doing.

Here's something to consider when comparing the 6.5 Creedmore to the 6.5 Swede, and that's case capacity. The following data comes from the Nosler #8 manual: Using IMR4350 powder and 140 grain bullets for both cases, the Creedmore shows 41.5 grains as max with a load density of 94%. The Swede, however, shows 43 grains as max with a load density of 91%.

Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that that's the powder & bullet to use, I'm merely pointing out that a very reliable source is showing that the Swede case clearly has more capacity. Which can certainly correlate to more velocity. Velocity lessens the time that winds have to drift the bullet at longer ranges, and certainly can make a very noticeable difference when the target's waay out there.

900F

CB900F said:

Bme27;

I'll suggest that you contact USSR here on THR (post #6 this thread) he's done what you are contemplating doing.

Here's something to consider when comparing the 6.5 Creedmore to the 6.5 Swede, and that's case capacity. The following data comes from the Nosler #8 manual: Using IMR4350 powder and 140 grain bullets for both cases, the Creedmore shows 41.5 grains as max with a load density of 94%. The Swede, however, shows 43 grains as max with a load density of 91%.

Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that that's the powder & bullet to use, I'm merely pointing out that a very reliable source is showing that the Swede case clearly has more capacity. Which can certainly correlate to more velocity. Velocity lessens the time that winds have to drift the bullet at longer ranges, and certainly can make a very noticeable difference when the target's waay out there.

900F

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The 6.5-284, 264 win mag, and the 26 Nosler all have more powder capacity, but the Creedmoor is dominating many of the long range matches. Velocity isn't everything to consider. Longer barrel life and less recoil goes a long way when you start slinging bullets into the next county. Don't get me wrong. I have had a Creedmoor, 260 and a Swede. For me there isn't enough difference to make me want one over the other. But it seems like the Creedmoor has the spotlight right now.

About 12 years ago, I decided I was moving from .30 caliber to 6.5mm for 1,000 yard F Class Competition. My options at that time: .260 Rem, 6.5x55, and 6.5-.284. I eliminated the 6.5-.284 for a couple of reasons. One, the lack of readily available brass and the VERY high price of Lapua brass, which is the brass of choice for LR shooters. And two, short barrel life so that most 6.5-.284 shooters were shooting loads at a reduced velocity that did not take advantage of the case's large case capacity. At that time, the .260 Rem was the darling of the LR 6.5mm shooters. However, there was no Lapua brass being made for it and most of the guys were either necking up .243 or necking down .308 Lapua brass. Since I did not want that hassle, I elected to go with the 6.5x55 which had affordable Lapua brass available, and has enough case capacity to drive the 139gr - 142gr bullets at nearly the velocity that the 6.5-.284 guys were running theirs at. I never regretted my choice.

Don

I always knew there was a good reason for me to own a 6.5X55 Swede And a .264 Winchester Magnum!

Fella's;

Oh dear, the 6.5-06 wasn't mentioned! Nonetheless, the difference in case capacity between the .308 based Creedmore and the 6.5 X 55mm Swede isn't gigantic, but it is there. Enough so to give the advantage to the Swede, but hardly enough to cause alarmist thoughts of barrel burning ala 6.5/284's & .264 Winmags. In the Winmag's case, modern powders have pretty much eliminated the problem anyway. Also, it and the 6.5-06 aren't seriously considered to be accuracy cartridges in any case.

900F

bme27 said:

So I am now really looking at the 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5 Creedmoor, and the .260 rem. I have been looking at load data and I am just confused at how to separate the three calibers. The data is so similar for all three its almost like looking at the same data. For a long range target gun and a backup hunting rifle it seems like either of these three would be great choices...:banghead::banghead::banghead:

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Same exact scenario I've been running through my head over and over and over again these last couple months. I really like the idea of the 6.5x47L but am thinking I'll probably end up going with the .260.

They are nearly identical. The 6.5CM and .260 are extremely similar, with the .260 having a bit more case capacity but the 6.5CM having the shoulder set back a little further to make it easier to use heavy bullets. The big advantage of the 6.5CM is that there is good, cheap factory match ammo available.

The 6.5x55 is longer (long action) and has more case capacity, but has a lower max pressure so the net performance is about the same. In some modern actions it can be hot rodded more than the others if you don't mind having ammo around that would blow up a surplus Swedish Mauser.

I went with the .260 Remington. As Llama Bob noted, the performance of the 3 are very similar. As such, I saw no reason for a standard length action and ruled out the Swede (I also ruled out the Swede because the specs for modern rifles seem to be a confusing mix of throat lengths and twist rates - just too tough to find the "right" configuration).

I settled on the .260 over the 6.5CM because 1) Lapua now makes brass for it and 2) the rifle I was looking at (Tikka CTR) was chambered in it and not 6.5CM (I've since added a custom .260 Rem rifle to my safe). Factory ammo is available for the .260 (including some good hunting ammo), but it's not as common as the 6.5CM.