so called cowboy "assault rifles"

chicharrones said:

Nothing but the lever gun got romanticized as heavily to millions of Americans through decades of western serials, western movies, and western TV shows. Which means that entertainment is to blame for much of the “tradition” attached to lever guns.

I like western movies as much as the next guy, but my guns aren’t bought due to what I see on a screen.

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I agree 100% on the perception of leverguns. It's the same for revolvers, single actions in particular. I just wanted to hear their justification for the pigeon-holing. Probably be nothing but crickets.

However, I also freely admit to buying some guns because of westerns and other movies.

I've got 3 leveraction Marlins. 44-40, 44mag and 45-70. The 44-40 is really slick handling. The 4l4mag feeds even semi wadcutters very smoothly. The 45-70 has a longer more clunky lever throw but throws a chunk of lead downrange. .

jmr40 said:

Lever guns are an American only thing. While we were playing Cowboys and Indians the rest of the world was using far better rifles and cartridges

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Some of that was done on horseback. Has anyone ever made a better design than a lever action to carry on a horse?

As to banning guns it's a nibbling process. Today we get the semi-autos. Tomorrow we get the bolt and lever actions. We will quit when the citizens are unarmed and have no way to resist. It's been played out that way throughout history and will only stop when enough get tired enough of it and say no more, you can't have them. That is exactly what happened that resulted in the British getting kicked out of our country.

Getting back on track I see tactializing lever actions as something done to attract younger people to sell more guns. If that is your thing no matter your age, get one or how many you desire. Have fun and enjoy your slightly changed toy or toys. The ordinary lever action really needs nothing done to it to be capable of being a defensive gun but there is always that inevitable need for "change" among humans for almost everything. Some is a good thing, some is bad, and a lot just window dressing.

Miami_JBT said:

Heck, the industry labeled what we now call "Modern Sporting Guns"; "Assault Weapons."

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Both of those books were primarily about NFA Title 2 weapons, as pictured, not civilian semiautos. And I believe both came after Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center published his 1988 whitepaper/press release popularizing his term “assault weapon” as a means to build momentum for a ban on semiauto rifles and eventually handguns.

Here’s the table of contents from the 5th Edition, which is mostly about machineguns and actual select-fire military/LE assault rifles, but throws in some military bolt-actions as an aside.



Sugarmann and compliant media (largely USA Today as I recall) are the ones who initially popularized the term “assault weapon” 1988-1989, especially after the Stockton shooting in 1989, not an ill-named hodgepodge of old Gun Digest articles that came later and inadvisedly used Sugarmann’s term to try to encompass NFA Title 2 machineguns and bolt-actions under one title.

benEzra said:

Both of those books were primarily about NFA Title 2 weapons, as pictured, not civilian semiautos. And I believe both came after Josh Sugarmann of the Violence Policy Center published his 1988 whitepaper/press release popularizing his term “assault weapon” as a means to build momentum for a ban on semiauto rifles and eventually handguns.

Here’s the table of contents from the 5th Edition, which is mostly about machineguns and actual select-fire military/LE assault rifles, but throws in some military bolt-actions as an aside.

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Sugarmann and compliant media (largely USA Today as I recall) are the ones who initially popularized the term “assault weapon” 1988-1989, especially after the Stockton shooting in 1989, not an ill-named hodgepodge of old Gun Digest articles that came later and inadvisedly used Sugarmann’s term to try to encompass NFA Title 2 machineguns and bolt-actions under one title.

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I have the majority of those books. They cover plenty of Title I Semi-Automatics too and the secondone in the photo was published in 1986. The Sugarman's white-paper took terminology the industry used and politicized it.

I’m looking forward to getting a modernized lever gun with mlok slots and an optic rail and threaded for a suppressor. Probably in .357 and/or .44.
Probably something like the Henry X model or one of the newer ones coming out like S&W or Marlin. We shall see, gotta get a couple other financial things done first.

Mycin said:

But they have proposed banning bolt guns as "sniper rifles."

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that is true ,I remember a congresswoman or senator ,propose that very thing back around 2011 or soo .I have told everyone about that expetially my friends who dont care if semi auto's gett banned ,because according to them they wont ban their scope mounted bolt action deer hunting rifles. AKA sniper rifles to them

I welcome tactical lever actions, revolvers, pump shotguns, whatever it may be. The bigger the target for the anti’s the more of “us,” they offend and disrupt.

I’ve said it before the AR is throwing a protective shade over all the Fudd guns.

And this coming from someone who enjoys, owns and respects Fudd guns.

And I use the term Fudd to describe those guns that a segment of our gun owners think are acceptable but AR’s, AK’s and the like are acceptable to be restricted.

So if tacticooling Fudd guns gets more people to the realization that the anti’s eventual goal is everything restricted then bring them on.

OLDE RETIRED COASTIE said:

do some folks still think of a good , fast handling lever gun as a cowboy assault rifle?

People that use lever guns a lot , tend to be pretty good with them. My two granddads could empty a Winchester. or Marlin lickity split. And they could hit what they shot at, doing that. But to them , their lever guns were working guns, as old time town marshalls in Oklahoma during the oil boom of the 1920s and 1930s

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More folks than just cowboys have used lever-action rifles. I have seen “Appalachian” used in place of “cowboy.” Whether that is meant to refer to a specific group of people, perhaps in a negative way, or to mean that the cartridges typically chambered in lever-action repeaters are useful at the short ranges usually encountered in forested, hilly terrain, a lever rifle is more at home in Eastern woods than on Western prairies, plains, badlands, and deserts, so, Appalachian makes sense.

Other gun writers’ regional references I have seen, regarding urban defensive lever actions, in modern times, include Brooklyn and Kansas City.

Any functional firearm can be used to commit the legally-defined offense of some level of assault. Some jurisdictions, if not most, will include non-functional and replica firearms in the legal definitions of assault. Then, there is the military concept of assault. Personally, I do not go about assaulting anyone, in either context. If I am walking-about with one of my Browning BLR rifles, or otherwise have one handy, at the moment in time, it could certain act in the defensive role, to the limits of my ability to get a sight picture, and the ability of .308 Winchester to cause adequate terminal performance. My BLR magazines only hold four cartridges of .308, but I can change mags more quickly than I can shove one cartridge through the loading gate of a traditional lever rifle. My wife’s family’s Winchester 94, .30 WCF, is our household’s shared general utility rifle, with defense falling within the utility role.

The Russians did learn a bitter lesson, at Plevna, a.k.a. Pleven, when they faced well-trained Turks, who had been issued Winchester lever-action repeaters, in addition to their standard infantry rifles. In the context of that one part of the overall siege/battle, the Winchester lever-action repeaters certainly performed well in the defense of a position.

It's a free country. I really like my 30-30 lever for hunting. However, it is not even close to consideration for any military use for me. Lack of accuracy and range, low rate of fire and limited capacity and difficult very slow reloading for most. If eight rounds of a pistol cartridge are enough for you, more power to you. Probably a good choice for home defense. Not the same thing as military use. Hopefully we will never see that type of use.
Also I am not a fan of lights and optics on a close range weapon. But again it's a free country. Whatever works for you. It sure isn't for me.

OLDE RETIRED COASTIE said:

do some folks still think of a good , fast handling lever gun as a cowboy assault rifle?

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Has anyone ever thought of a levergun as a “cowboy assault rifle”?

I'll be dead in a pile of brass before I ever need a "assault" lever gun to defend myself.
My two are for when I'm horse riding and plinking with the grandkids

I like lever guns and have several, but there's nothing tactical about them regardless of how many doodads you attach to a picatinny rail. If I'm going to get in a fire fight, its going to be with a semiauto, box magazine fed rifle that holds 30 rounds. And that's only because I can't legally have an automatic weapon.

I threaded all of mine for suppressors. They make wonderful hosts and don't toss brass into the next county. And the older I get the more I wish I had more forgiving materials than blueing and walnut. And my eyes can't see irons very well any more. So yes, I can see the appeal of the "tactical" lever gun.

I enjoy my lever guns for what they are, and "tacti-cool" isn't part of it. To each their own,but it would be like putting mag wheels and wide tires on a bone stock Model T.

Barmcd said:

I like lever guns and have several, but there's nothing tactical about them regardless of how many doodads you attach to a picatinny rail. If I'm going to get in a fire fight, its going to be with a semiauto, box magazine fed rifle that holds 30 rounds. And that's only because I can't legally have an automatic weapon.

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Why? So a pump action shotgun that holds five rounds is still viable but a levergun with a weaponlight and a red dot is not? This is exactly what I'm talking about, perception versus reality.

I suppose I hew to the conventional military definition of "assault rifle" being an autoloader chambered for an intermediate caliber. It would be unusual to see anyone in the modern day assign a lever gun to an "assault" role like storming barricaded structures of other kind of HRT work. So I guess that's a "no" from me as to if it would be considered a "cowboy assault rifle" and such a term seems somewhat nonsensical as that's not really a normal part of being a cowboy/rancher.

Still, I say a levergun would be a terrific defensive firearm for many situations and in many different configurations. I'd love to a Rossi 92 in either .44 Mag or .45 Colt set up with rails, a light and an Aimpoint! First off it would be a hoot as those guns are incredibly fun to shoot! It would be great for jurisdictions where the types of guns one might prefer are regulated, and good for those who aren't really "gun guys" but are sensible enough to want a multi-role firearm around. Such a rifle would be a fantastic rifle for camping in my locale, a place where you might need to defend yourself from threats ranging from humans to 900 lb bears.

Sorry, @hso even Breitbart is in on tactical lever action rifles:

I have always wondered why lever action rifles are far more popular than pump rifles while pump shotguns are far more popular than lever action shotguns.

With that out of the way, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a good lever action armadillo assault rifle.