EAA Witness 10mm Auto

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jeepmor

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I've been looking at these for they are cheaper to reload than my 45, and more powerful, into the realm of the .357 mag with an autoloader.

I'm looking at a Witness now on Gunbroker.com, but am not sure on how much I should bid. I'm at $310 and have not met reserve. Should I stop and look elsewhere before going on? How high should I bid? I'm not finding them anywhere else online, help on this would be much appreciated. What about CDNN, are they call in only? Don't have one in the Portland, Oregon area that I know of.

jeepmor
 
I recently bought a 10mm Witness at a gun store in the Clackamas area called "Gunbroker", theres also one in the Beaverton area. Mine cost me $347.00 NIB. They did have to order it in as they only had 45's and 40's in stock. If you buy on line it will cost you at least that much for shipping and FFL fees. Mine has been a blast to shoot and I've come up with some great reload recipe's for it.
 
He must be talking about bullets being a little cheaper. Sometimes you can find brass at gun shows for a good deal. I bought mine at 1000 new, because I didn't want to take a chance with the so called once fired brass and having to cull the Glock brass.
 
lee n. field said:
I'm guessing that will turn out not to be the case. .45 ACP brass is very readily available. I've seen very little 10mm.
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Well, few people load 10mm up to where it was really designed to run, so the life expectency of 10mm brass can be impressive.

I have some cases that I used in IPSC shooting that have been loaded close to 20 times and no splits yet. The primer pockets are beginning to be a tad loose and they are nearing the end of their life, but I've been amazed at how long they held up.

If you amortize out the number of times you can use the brass you get close to .45 brass prices. And, shooting cast lead bullets you get a bit more for your money simply because there is less lead in a 180gr 10mm than in a 230gr .45.

As for availability, the usual reloading places always seem to have plenty of Starline or Winchester 10mm brass by the 1000.

I would agree that over time you can load 10mm at or below the cost of .45

Start using fancy bullets or loads near the max and that of course changes.
 
People always compare the 10mm to the .357 magnum.
in my mind a .38 Super is comparable.

The TEN is more like a .41 magnum and much more to us who own a 10MM.

In any event. The Witness Ten is based on a great design and mine has ran perfectly the last 4 years. everything from mild to wild loads.

My woodswalking ATV riding gun when I want to baby my CZs:)
346557.jpg
 
10 mm Advice taken

Thank you all for the input. The more the better, keep it coming, please.

I'll be contacting you, 1911 Terry, when I get my meaty grubs on one and and save enough factory brass to switch to reloads only. Thanks for pointing out the Gunbroker retail store, the Beaverton store is out, their supplier is out too. I'll be calling across town tomorrow.

Actually, because I have taken up handloading for my .45 and reviewed ammo prices on Midway and the likes, I'm not worried about ammo cost, I can buy factory loads to build my brass reserve. Reloading will be fun and it is really my excuse to buy this weapon. At least thats how I'm justfying it in my mind. Plus, I bought my wife her $800 TV, and this is half that! ;)

On the holsters, is that a standard 1911 holster, specific to the witness, CZ or otherwise.


Thanks everyone,

jeepmor
 
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loading your own 10mm ?

I agree with everything I have read on this thread and, YES, I love my full size Witness 10mm in Wonder Finish. Just be ready to use a brass catcher to save that brass or chase it about 20 -30 feet because the things try to put the brass into orbit !!! OR.....you can tune the ejector by machining it down shorter. If you need that....I think I can find the link to the guy who showed me how he did his. (over on the CZ clone site) You guys may have seen it...
Adding the Wolff 20-22# recoil spring helped with recoil, but not the ejection distance. I think they are great handguns. I have them in six calibers.

I agree the 38 super can be loaded up to close to 357 ballistics too. I fire 9X23 Win in my 38 super with no malfunctions and it can really handle much more than the 38SA. I don't suggest anyone else trying it, but I do it all the time. I don't want to be blamed for anything that is not cool. Some guys say it's not cool to do it.

Oh and ,CZF, nice looking rig ! Are those Hakans or what?

I carry mine in a holster very similar to that one. I come from a long line of leather smiths and we craft our own. Good looking rig, man !

Merry Christmas, guys !

-Patman in OKC
(I can't believe this is my first post on here)
 
CZF said:
People always compare the 10mm to the .357 magnum.
in my mind a .38 Super is comparable.

The TEN is more like a .41 magnum and much more to us who own a 10MM.
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Not quite. When you look at the numbers (MV/ME) of the top loads each calibre, the .357 Magnum and the 10mm are virtually identical ballistically (with the .357 usually holding a slight--but insignificant--edge). The ME/MV of the top .41 Magnum loads easily exceed the 10mm by around 50%--the .41 Magnum is in a whole different league. The 10mm is the bottom feeder equivalent of the .357 Magnum (which is not too shabby).
 
Kev's is a High Noon.....I make plenty for the Witness also. Heres one GrayRider had for IWB carry.

P1010220.sized.jpg

And ballistically the 357 Sig is equal the the lighter fullhouse loads of the 357 Mag, the 10mm in heavier/hotter loadings is very similar to the 41 mag! Double Tap ammo is around 800 FPE with 10mm fodder!

Nice gun........Shoot well.
 
Yup that one is mine. It totes my Stocks with no problems at all.

:D

I would do one of the Elite series Witnesses in 10mm personally. You get some nice extras. Call Marc Galli at EAA and tell him I sent you. Mind you there may be a bit of a wait, but they are worth it. Also be aware that the P-Carry in 10mm should be here early in '06. That will make a neat carry gun.

GR
 
Hi guys,

The guys at Buffalo Bore also have some impressive 10mm ammo.
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#10mm

...and .41 mag
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#41mag

The .41 can be loaded much higher than the 10mm though. Both Bufflao Bore and the amazing loads at Grizzly Cartridge Company http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/Page.bok?template=about are comercial loads that show what the .41 magnum can do.

I have shot the .41 mag 265 grain @ 1400 fps, it's a handful to say the least.:D

Happy Shooting,
JRLaws
 
1911 TERRY said:
I recently bought a 10mm Witness at a gun store in the Clackamas area called "Gunbroker", theres also one in the Beaverton area. Mine cost me $347.00 NIB. They did have to order it in as they only had 45's and 40's in stock. If you buy on line it will cost you at least that much for shipping and FFL fees. Mine has been a blast to shoot and I've come up with some great reload recipe's for it.
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Terry: I live in Vancouver and am a long-standing "Gunbroker" shopper. Royd is a personal friend of mine, as we have known each other for over 20 years. I bought my Witness with their proprietary "Wonder finish" years ago.

If you go to www.doubletapammo.com you will find the real 10mm Auto loadings (read: those that reach and exceed the original Norma specifications). These DO NOT exceed the SAMMI pressure limits for the cartridge, yet still bring you the true "lower-end" .41 Magnum performance levels that the 10mm was originally designed to provide.

While you're at it, come visit us at www.10mmtalk.com. we will be glad to keep you abreast of the latest developments in both the cartridge and handguns for the "mighty 10".

Scott
 
PCRCCW said:
the 10mm in heavier/hotter loadings is very similar to the 41 mag! Double Tap ammo is around 800 FPE with 10mm fodder!
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NOT HARDLY. Buffalo Bore's .41 Magnum loads top out at between 1000-1100 fpe--considerably hotter than anything Double Tap offers for the 10mm. Buffalo Bore's .357 Magnum loads easily equal Double Tap's 10mm offerings.

The only way you can say "the 10mm in heavier/hotter loadings is very similar to the 41 mag!" is by carefully choosing loads to compare. Using the same techniques, I can easily prove the .40 S&W "is very similar to the" 10mm.

BTW, you're wrong as well about "the 357 Sig is equal the the lighter fullhouse loads of the 357 Mag." If you check Double Tap's 357 SIG 125-grain load, you will see it yields 1450 fps and 584 fpe (four-inch barrel) while Buffalo Bore's .357 Magnum loads yields 1603 fp and 713 fpe (four-inch barrel)--that's not very "equal!"
 
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Gunfan, I also live in Vancouver. I've been doing lots of reading on those forums, though I haven't participated. I'm looking forward to getting another 10, but I've been waiting till after the "Shot Show" to see if anyone introduces new models. I'd been hoping CZ would come out with a 97 frame model. Now that Springfield is coming out with the new 45 acp XD model maybe they'll come out with a 10mm.
 
10mm fans in PDX area

1911 Terry and Gunfan, can you recommend some ranges in the area please? I'm new to plinking beyond occasionally packing my 22 rifle on a couple camping trips a year. Now that I own a handgun, I want to plink more and have just been running out to Tillamook forest area when I find the need to plink. I go to Mt Hood a lot also, but there seems to be a lot of "no shooting" signs in that area. And a lot of the roads are just plain snowed in right now.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

jeepmor

PS - called the gunbroker locations, both are out of the 10mm Witness models and don't know when their supplier will be restocking them. I think Terry bought the last one, bummer for me. Not sure the wife is real keen on another pistol, but she sure likes that big new TV ;)
 
Yes, a High Noon topless holster in horsehide was for my (now departed) 97b that also fits the Witness. Holster is for sale as is a NEW El Paso Saddlery
Witness 45/10MM street combat.

0b5.jpg
 
Granted....If you compare the hottest 357/41 mag loads from the DT and BB then its gonna be hotter. If you use factory, Rem, Win, Etc as a baseline they are alot closer. People are pushing 41 mag loads where the 44 used to be but not in factory loadings.
Shoot well.
 
I have a full size wonder finish and a compact and the only thing I don't like is that they have no decocker, and I wish they did.
 
PCRCCW said:
Granted....If you compare the hottest 357/41 mag loads from the DT and BB then its gonna be hotter. If you use factory, Rem, Win, Etc as a baseline they are alot closer. People are pushing 41 mag loads where the 44 used to be but not in factory loadings.
Shoot well.
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That's my point if you are going to use TAC, BB, and DT as the baseline for the 10mm THEN you need to use them as the baseline for the .357 Magnum and .41 Magnum--don't forget there are 10mm loads out there like the Federal 180-grain HSHP at 1030 fps/425 fpe. BTW, Buffalo Bore's .41 Magnum loads are every bit as much factory loads as Double Tap's 10mm loads.
 
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jeepmor before you buy off the internet I would see what a local shop would charge you to order. Probably wouldn't be anymore after you factor in shipping and transfer fee. I wish Taurus, CZ, RUger or someone would put out a non 1911 10mm. There seems to be demand enough for one but no company wants to put one out. Taurus even has a 38 Super.
 
10 mm Witness

jeff-10 said:
jeepmor before you buy off the internet I would see what a local shop would charge you to order
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I'm talking to the guy who operates Oregonguns.com now, hopefully his supplier can come through. Gunbroker retail shops in town (pdx area) are out until further notice, and they are not sure when that is. :( But Oregonguns.com deals in primarily the high end, so he probably doesn't make much money off a budget wary guy like myself. He's a great guy to deal with, but I'm not a high end customer....yet, the fever is catching, but not there.....yet.

I don't see the why I'd want to spend $900 on a 1911 model when I can get the Witness in the same chambering for ~$350. Must be quite a marketing markup for the Colt stuff eh. :what: Plus, don't the Colts usually need some polishing and respringing anyway. I think they're overrated anyhow, at least monetarily. Plus, I can do that to this Witness and still be under a new or used Colt model. I do like the classic 1911 lines, no doubt, but I don't like it so much as to pay nearly 3 times more for it.

The witness having a good reputation and history in everyday law enforcement use in Europe is the driving factor that had me considering the purchase of one. I have not read any horror stories about them other than don't get the magazines with the black follower. Everyone sounds real happy with them and they have a cult like status. Should be good fun. Plus, I like that Wow! look on peoples faces when they think your plinking a 45ACP or something and it goes boom like a magnum, always good fun.

And you guys trying to turn this into a caliber war, quit being petty. I started this thread to gather information to help me make a sound decision on a handgun. I have been given lots of info here that leads me to believe I am making a sound decision. From a protection point of view for a reliable gun, and from economics point of view, this gun is about 1/3 of the Colt fodder I'm seeing out there.


Merry Christmas,

jeepmor
 
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