Glock Project #2: G17 Carry Gun

Hey guys,

I know I have been a way for a long time but things are finally settling down where I can get on here more. So, I figured I would try to get back on the forums a little more often. The last Glock project I posted about got a lot of feedback, questions and comments. As a result, I figured I would share my latest endeavor.

I have always wanted to take a G17 and chop the grip down to a G19 size which would give me the conceal-ability of the G19, but the barrel length, and sight radius of the G17. So I did. I also cut it a little shorter to allow for a better grasp on the magazine base plate for ripping magazines either two handed or one handed only.

I got this gun at a really great deal and it had maybe a couple boxes of ammo through it. It was practically brand new. The only potential bad thing about it is the fact that it is an early model Gen 4. I have stayed away from the Gen 4's for a long while but eventually decided that I would give one a try.

Right off the bat I love the reduced size of the grip frame (without a backstrap), the texturing of the grip frame, and the added surface area of the magazine release.

1st Range trip (Stock and prior to any changes):

250rds: 150 UMC, and 100rds Federal Champion.

In the first 30-50 rounds, I had 2 stove pipes. I had no more issues during the remaining rounds I fired. However, I did get hit in face with brass on one occasion which is sadly something that I have become accustomed to with my G19 gen 3 (late model, and my next project).

Obviously there is something going on. Prior to buying the Gen 4 I knew that I may run into issues, so I was already prepared with solutions to possible problems. I had originally thought that I would change one part at a time until I figured out a set up that made the gun run reliably.

However, that seems like a lot of ammo expended when I could just change the most likely items that would/ did cause the issues. The only stipulation to this "parts swap" was that they all had to be Glock OEM.

I will say that during my first outing with it, I beat some of my previous best times and scores on timed skill drills. I was very happy with that considering it was the first time out with it and the trigger was a little heavier (feeling) than I am used to on a Glock. I got great accuracy and actually was able to run it pretty fast.

Here is what I have done so far.
1) Replaced 0-1-2 recoil spring with a 0-2-4
2) Replaced extractor (#4) with a (#2)
3) Replaced the 336 ejector with the 30274
4) I also installed an OEM (-) connector. The stock trigger was smooth but heavier than I am used to in my Gen 3 G19.
5) I added an extended magazine release

#4 and #5 obviously are not that had to be changed for reliability reasons but they are things that I just wanted to do.

I may have over corrected for the problem, maybe all it needed was the new ejector, or the new recoil spring. Whatever, if it works I don’t care that I did more than I really needed to.

Note:
1) I normally run a grip force adapter on Gen 2 and Gen 3 Glocks. However, the grip size and shape on the gen 4 makes it to where I do not need one.
2) Ken Hackathorn sights from Ameriglo will be installed and it will be ready to rock.... Barring any issues of course.

I plan to get it to the range several times between now and the end of April. Next week I will be running 350rds through it from multiple ammo makers. Between now and the end of April I plan to get 1,000 trouble free and brass in the face free rounds out of it of FMJ. Then shoot a box of my department issued SXT's. I want it to be 100% by the end of April which is when I will be attending Ken Hackathorn's Advanced Handgun course in Elkin N.C.

Eventually, if this Gen 4 works out, it will be my new off duty carry gun. I will post updates after each range trip.

I hope you stay tuned for updates and I hope that my trial and error helps someone else out that may be having issues. AAR of the Hackathorn course will be posted as well.



As of right now, I am not going to do anything to the grip frame such as stippling. I may stipple under the trigger guard like on my G19, we shall see.

Yes, I did shoot it before chopping the grip down.

Sappyg,

Thanks

Camsdaddy,

So far I like it very much

Hentown,
I have a G19 already and have been shooting and carrying one for years. I wanted to add a G17 to the collection. As far as being red herrings; I disagree.

G17 Carry Gun Project Update

Update

Range trip #1 (after the internal changes were made) (3/14/14)

Ammo:
1) 100rds Freedom Munitions 115gr FMJ
2) 100rds Speer Lawman 124gr TMJ
3) 100rds Tula 115gr Steel cased FMJ
4) 50rds Remington UMC 115gr FMJ

Total: 350rds

Drills Conducted:
1) Lav Test
2) Lav 1/2 Test
3) Box drill
4) Shooting on the move (forward, backwards, and side to side)
5) Reloads
6) SHO and WHO only draws, shooting, and manipulations
7) 4,5,6,7 drill
8) hackathorn 3 sec head shot standards
9) Multiple targets

Result: No malfunctions, and no brass in the face. I used a combo of Glock 17 mags that came with the new gun and my 10x G-19 Training magazines that I have been using over the last three years without issue. Empties wet to the right and well clear of me.

I am very happy with the results so far. 650 more rounds of FMJ training ammo, and a couple boxes of Winchester SXTs and Federal HSTs and it will be ready for carry. As long as it still runs the way that it did yesterday.

Trigger:
The Gen four has the "bump" trigger, so by adding the (-) connector it did not get the trigger down as light as it would by using the same connector on a Gen 2 or 3. However, it did lighten it a tad. The bump might make the trigger feel heavier but it is very consistent and smooth. I was able to get excellent accuracy. I have no complaints as of yet. I think it has about a perfect trigger for carry now.

Grip force adapter:

i use on when I shoot Gen 2-3 glocks and thought that I would go without one on the Gen 4, However I think I am gonna go ahead and throw one on the GEN 4 as well.

In other news:

I got a great deal on a practically new Gen 2 G17 on (3/13/14). It was made in 1991. No worries, I am not going to chop this one down.
I have a Grip force adapter on order for both of my Glock 17's. Lastly, I will have the Hackathorn sights installed on the gun next week, and hit the range with the Gen 4 with new sights and GFA in about two weeks (or less hopefully). More to follow.

Family Photo of the Glock collection so far.

Maybe a 26 one day, I don't know about a 34 though.

I am an LEO. I know the law in reference to this. I will continue to carry my guns as I see fit.
A civil suit is the farthest thing from my mind in a fight for my life. Any gun that I carry as a BUG on duty or carry off duty, I qualify with and am supplied duty ammo for. When I qualify as such I am given authorization by the city and my department to carry it. Even if that wasn't the case, I still would not hesitate to carry a modified gun if that is what I wanted to do.

And that folks is exactly why I stopped posting on forums. Looks like it is time to step away again.

Man don't go. I remember way back picking your brain about a p345. Looking forward to hearing about life with the 19l

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Man to this day that P345 was one of the least expensive handguns that I have ever owned but one of if not the most accurate handguns I have ever owned.

Update: Addition of Ken Hackathorn Sights from Ameriglo.

1st impressions with the Hack sights (only dry fire): I love em. I am pretty confident that out to 7yds or more that you could use just the orange ring and get good accurate hits very fast. Kinda of like the xs big dot advantage, but these take it a step farther in that you have the ability to buckle down and get a tradition notch and post sight picture for precision if it is called for. Of course I will test this theory and I will post up more thoughts after some "live" time with them.

OP, I have recently begun tinkering with my Glocks. I am curious as to what these mods are, and why you did them.

1- I am unfamiliar with recoil spring labeling in Glocks. Did you simply change the weight of the spring?

2- Why change the extractor, and what is the difference? How can I tell which one I have now?

3- Why change the ejector, and what is the difference? How can I tell which one I have now?

Thanks for posting your work on your Glock!

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rgwalt,

1) I did not change the weight of the recoil spring, they are both Glock OEM and I am pretty sure that they are the same weight. The original recoil springs that came on the early Gen 4's were marked 0-1-2. Due to people having issues in the early model Gen 4's in 9mm, Glock decided to make a different recoil spring and send those out as replacements and those are marked 0-2-4. Essentially they just did some minor changes to the recoil spring design, they are hard to tell apart.

2) The extractor in the early Gen 4's got a lot of attention as possibly being the reason for brass in the face and failures as it was one of the "new" changes that came along with the Gen 4's. Some hypothesize that on the early Gen 4's, the gap between the extractor claw and the breech face was too wide. This would cause the piece of brass to start slipping during cycling. I wanted to rule out as many possible problems as I could so I went ahead and swapped it out. When the Gen 4's came out, they (and Gen 3's) came with the then new extractor. Even after the recoil spring change Glock was still getting complaints about brass in the face and malfunctions. As a result, they would ship one of the newest extractors.

Honestly I was not sure which extractor would or would not work best. I ordered one of the "new" ones that was listed on Lone Wolf and it was a #2 (the number is on the extractor). My old one was a #4 (also on the extractor). If the one I got didn't work correctly or does cause issues in the future, I will probably go with one of the old school Non-LCI extractors and a Non-LCI spring loaded bearing.

3) This ties into our ejector. The "336" ejector is the ejector that Glock has been using for years. My 1991 made Gen 2 Glock 17 has one. People were still complaining of brass in the face and failures even after the recoil spring and extractor change. Glock designed a new ejector (30274) to go along with their then "new" extractor. The the different ejectors are visibly different in their design. The gap I talked about before between the extractor claw and the breech face caused the spent casing to slip, which caused the ejector to hit the brass in a less than optimal position. This is possibly the cause of the erratic ejection (brass in face) and malfunctions (stove pipes, and in-line stove pipes at that) to occur.

Essentially, Glock made multiple changes when they came out with the Gen 4's, but they also incorporated those changes to the Gen 3's. Both my Gen 4 (G17) and Gen 3 (G19) were made a few months a part in 2010. I have 11,111rds through my G19 and I get brass in the face about 2 out of every 250rds. However, it is always reliable so I have not messed with it. Although after the G17 (Gen 4) passes my tests, I will be trying to rectify the G19 brass in the face issue. Since I have a spare 30274 ejector laying around I will try that first.

The main change that was the same on both guns was the extractor. The ejector (336) stayed the same. Of course on the Gen 4's they also changed the recoil spring assembly. That leads me to believe that in the Gen 4 there are a couple ways to rectify the issue off the bat.

1) Leave the 336 ejector, replace the extractor and recoil spring.
2) Or leave the extractor that comes in it and change the recoil spring and ejector, as it seems that the 30274 ejector works with the extractor that comes with the gun.

I was on a mission to find the right combination that works. I have no idea if this will fix all of the Glock 9mm guns that have issues. I ordered a lot of different parts and was prepared to swap this and that until it ran right. Some how I lucked out and the first combination is the right combination of my gun (so far more time will tell).

It is possible that only changing the recoil spring would have done the trick. Or changing just the recoil spring and ejector etc. However, I wanted to do a mass over haul and see where it went from there. I also wanted to try and minimize the amount of time and ammo that I had to expend on the experiment to get it to run right. The sooner it passed my standards, the sooner I could put into service for carry.

When ordering parts for the gun, use websites that list what part it is.
IE brownells had the recoil spring and on the web page it stated that it was Marked 0-2-4 so I knew that was the one that I needed. On Lone wolf they had the "30274" ejector listed, so that is how I went with that one. Again on the extractor I kind of took a gamble.

I have not messed with any recent made Glock Gen 3's or Gen 4's so I do not know for sure but I hear that all of the issues have been rectified. I do know though that the new Gen 4's come with the "dot" or "." connector which is supposed to help the trigger out a bit. It is supposed to bridge the gap between the Standard connector and the "-" connector.

I hope this helps you out.

Hackathorn sight pics:



Hackathorn sights vs. Trijicon thee dot.

Grip force adapters added to the pair of 17's. I have been running a GFA since they first came out and I like them a lot. This is my first time tryin one of the Smooth Contour (SC) models. I like the SC the best. It comes free now when you buy a regular GFA (with ribs) for either a Gen4 or Gen 1,2,3. I wish they sold just the SC for the G1,2,3 and I wish they made a SC for the Gen 4.