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Great Video!!! Thanks for showing.
1858 Rapid Fire
- Thread starter damoc
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yep i heard they often used paper cartridges I even made up a few and tried
them and they did speed the reload up but that still gets back to the binding
of the cyl pin.
perhaps that is why 12 cartridges is all they would carry for there revolvers as this was the most shots they could hope to get before the revolver was relegated to the status of club weapon.
I know thats the most i have ever got total (18 shots) before the cylindar
was unuseable and i had to tap out the pin when reloading without the dab
of lard on the cyl pin hole.
reloading in a hurry with paper cartridges without correct lube is probably
also what led to the many chain fires/exploding revolvers ive heard tell of.
by the way the paper cartridges I made from smoke papers worked once great
but the paper blew back into the niples and fairly well clogged them up
and needed some good cleaning.
them and they did speed the reload up but that still gets back to the binding
of the cyl pin.
perhaps that is why 12 cartridges is all they would carry for there revolvers as this was the most shots they could hope to get before the revolver was relegated to the status of club weapon.
I know thats the most i have ever got total (18 shots) before the cylindar
was unuseable and i had to tap out the pin when reloading without the dab
of lard on the cyl pin hole.
reloading in a hurry with paper cartridges without correct lube is probably
also what led to the many chain fires/exploding revolvers ive heard tell of.
by the way the paper cartridges I made from smoke papers worked once great
but the paper blew back into the niples and fairly well clogged them up
and needed some good cleaning.
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We need also to get a sense of perspective when talking about the guns fouling up fast. Just prior to the CW most handguns were single shot caplocks. All of a sudden here comes a Colt that has SIX TIMES THE FIRE POWER! WOW! What a leap. So the idea that the gun was gonna be fast reloaded and re-shot was not on the designer's mind. Once the gun was shot dry then you pulled your sword or fighting knife. Look at some of the pictures of 1850s border Ruffians and you'll see what I mean. Reloading was to be done after the smoke cleared at the surviving shooter's leisure. Basically the guns were not expected to be shot 18 times in a row so the design features (e.g. cylinder gas ring) didn't become an issue until the later models at the dawn of the cartridge age when more sustained fire was expected.
andrewstorm
member
extra
I carry 3 revolvers and extra cylinders side arm ,belt pistol ,n boot gun when afield,extra cylinder for the boot gun,for a total of 22 shots +powder caps n balls bag,and long gun,just think what jerimia jhonson coulda done with revolvers..........
I carry 3 revolvers and extra cylinders side arm ,belt pistol ,n boot gun when afield,extra cylinder for the boot gun,for a total of 22 shots +powder caps n balls bag,and long gun,just think what jerimia jhonson coulda done with revolvers..........
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junkman_01
member
With all that hardware on you , it is a miracle if you can stand up no less walk!
Doc Rizzi
Member
1858 Remington
Very nice! I enjoyed your video. I use the 1858 Remington with an R&D conversion cylinder for Cowboy Action Shooting and it works great. I don't have to speed load on the clock so that is not an issue. The other thing that impressed me is that when I am using cap and ball for CAS I usually have an issue with jammed caps in at least one stage per shoot. I thought it was because I was going to fast, but after watching you go through those cylinders without a glitch I was very impressed! Where abouts are you in CA? I am in San Jose.
Very nice! I enjoyed your video. I use the 1858 Remington with an R&D conversion cylinder for Cowboy Action Shooting and it works great. I don't have to speed load on the clock so that is not an issue. The other thing that impressed me is that when I am using cap and ball for CAS I usually have an issue with jammed caps in at least one stage per shoot. I thought it was because I was going to fast, but after watching you go through those cylinders without a glitch I was very impressed! Where abouts are you in CA? I am in San Jose.
1. Fast reloading is a lot faster when you can get the camera to stop running while you do it.
2. The federal cavalry did use sabers and killed folks with them, some oft-repeated quotes to the contrary.
3. Carrying extra loaded and capped cylinders was justified when fighting a war. Today, it can be downright dangerous; if a capped cylinder drops and a cap hits a stone or a concrete walkway, it is just like a short barrel pistol.
Jim
2. The federal cavalry did use sabers and killed folks with them, some oft-repeated quotes to the contrary.
3. Carrying extra loaded and capped cylinders was justified when fighting a war. Today, it can be downright dangerous; if a capped cylinder drops and a cap hits a stone or a concrete walkway, it is just like a short barrel pistol.
Jim
Im near Redding CA. try getting a little crud on the cylindars I noticed when
they are very clean I have a bit of trouble with caps blowing off but after a round the BP crud buildup on the nipples seems to help prevent the caps blowing off.
occasionally i will still have a cap blow out and jam the action but not often
with the 58.
Hellgate multiple fast reloads may not have been in the mind of the designer
but the designe definately seems capeable of it which still amazes me.
Imagine if the capeabilites were fully utilised by either side earlier in the conflict it could have ended the conflict sooner or there could have been a different victor.
I feel this revolver was that far ahead of its time, opinions?
I think this revolver/carbine gave true small unit fire and movement ability that had not realy been used well before and probably would not be untill WW2.
Im not a historian so i dont know if modern small unit tactics were employed
or were able to be employed during the civil war but to me it seems like
it was a matter of shoot then charge.
A revolver/carbine able to be reloaded quickly and fired all day seems to me made these modern tactics possible.
they are very clean I have a bit of trouble with caps blowing off but after a round the BP crud buildup on the nipples seems to help prevent the caps blowing off.
occasionally i will still have a cap blow out and jam the action but not often
with the 58.
Hellgate multiple fast reloads may not have been in the mind of the designer
but the designe definately seems capeable of it which still amazes me.
Imagine if the capeabilites were fully utilised by either side earlier in the conflict it could have ended the conflict sooner or there could have been a different victor.
I feel this revolver was that far ahead of its time, opinions?
I think this revolver/carbine gave true small unit fire and movement ability that had not realy been used well before and probably would not be untill WW2.
Im not a historian so i dont know if modern small unit tactics were employed
or were able to be employed during the civil war but to me it seems like
it was a matter of shoot then charge.
A revolver/carbine able to be reloaded quickly and fired all day seems to me made these modern tactics possible.
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Noz
Have you no honor, Suh? I find your treacherous thoughts to be vile, despicable, and totally unacceptable on a field of valor. Now, having said that, I must admit my thoughts mirrored yours when I first watched the movie.
damoc,
Excellent job on the video. I find your comments on the fouling issue to be especially interesting. Were you using real BP or a BP substitute in your loads? I fired 18 shots through my new 1858 this past Sunday; and noticed no difference in the functioning of the weapon from the first to last shot. I intentionally made no effort to clean anything between cylinder loads. It was originally my intent to shoot until I experienced the fouling problems mentioned by others on various forums. Unfortunately, insufficient range time prevented me from doing so.
I was shooting 20 grains of Triple 7 with Cabelas lubed wads over the powder. The only lube used on the pistol during this sequence was Ballistol.
Have you no honor, Suh? I find your treacherous thoughts to be vile, despicable, and totally unacceptable on a field of valor.
Now, having said that, I must admit my thoughts mirrored yours when I first watched the movie.damoc,
Excellent job on the video. I find your comments on the fouling issue to be especially interesting. Were you using real BP or a BP substitute in your loads? I fired 18 shots through my new 1858 this past Sunday; and noticed no difference in the functioning of the weapon from the first to last shot. I intentionally made no effort to clean anything between cylinder loads. It was originally my intent to shoot until I experienced the fouling problems mentioned by others on various forums. Unfortunately, insufficient range time prevented me from doing so.
I was shooting 20 grains of Triple 7 with Cabelas lubed wads over the powder. The only lube used on the pistol during this sequence was Ballistol.
damoc,
The lighter loads might very well be the reason. I certainly don't have enough experience to comment one way or the other. The aforementioned 18 rounds represent my entire BP shooting history. I prefer to consider myself as being in the early learning stage of BP shooting. That just has a better ring to it than "newby".
The lighter loads might very well be the reason. I certainly don't have enough experience to comment one way or the other. The aforementioned 18 rounds represent my entire BP shooting history. I prefer to consider myself as being in the early learning stage of BP shooting. That just has a better ring to it than "newby".
You started out saying that you wanted to
I'd say you've pretty much accomplished at least half your goal. I commend you on your muzzle control; the gun was never pointed anywhere that the average RSO would take exception to. Some might say 'the barrel was being waved around', which is true, but even then it appeared under control and either downrange or at the ground, even when being drawn and holstered in a weak side holster. Lots of people can't (or won't) do that.
The issues of loading 6 and loading a capped cylinder are mitigated by being on a range and the gun's configuration. The '58 Remington has 'safety notches' allowing the gun to be carried with the hammer down but not on a loaded chamber, so carrying with all six loaded is generally acceptable practice. Further, loading all 6 on a firing line is not an issue at any range I'm aware of. And accepting that you thought ahead and took care to prevent a dropped loaded and capped cylinder from striking a hard object mitigates that concern. So I think you've ably demonstrated reasonably rapid loading and firing a '58 Remington safely.
Now, not to throw water on the parade, but as to the other half of the task, accuracy - - - show us the targets!
I'd say you've pretty much accomplished at least half your goal. I commend you on your muzzle control; the gun was never pointed anywhere that the average RSO would take exception to. Some might say 'the barrel was being waved around', which is true, but even then it appeared under control and either downrange or at the ground, even when being drawn and holstered in a weak side holster. Lots of people can't (or won't) do that.
The issues of loading 6 and loading a capped cylinder are mitigated by being on a range and the gun's configuration. The '58 Remington has 'safety notches' allowing the gun to be carried with the hammer down but not on a loaded chamber, so carrying with all six loaded is generally acceptable practice. Further, loading all 6 on a firing line is not an issue at any range I'm aware of. And accepting that you thought ahead and took care to prevent a dropped loaded and capped cylinder from striking a hard object mitigates that concern. So I think you've ably demonstrated reasonably rapid loading and firing a '58 Remington safely.
Now, not to throw water on the parade, but as to the other half of the task, accuracy - - - show us the targets!
lol yeah dont know about the accuracy bit guess ill have to try again
target was at 20 yards and i did miss
the plate several times
below is another bit of 58 fiction somebody sent me the link to I thought it was a good read
http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/fiction/chaparralchallenge.pdf
target was at 20 yards and i did miss
the plate several times
below is another bit of 58 fiction somebody sent me the link to I thought it was a good read
http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/fiction/chaparralchallenge.pdf
Attachments
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Although the Remington has nice safety notches between the nipples I have had at least one gun that when set down onto the safety notch would allow the cylinder to turn easily. Sometimes the hammer doesn't go all the way down to the notch or the tip of the hammer is too wide for the notch. So check it out before relying on it.
PRM
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
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Doubt if I ever do it, but the thread has been fascinating. Watch this guy ~ talk about smooth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3rj89cqQQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3rj89cqQQ8
The key to that is control of the hammer position, and thus the bolt and hand positions. Notice how he pulls the hammer back just enough to drop the bolt but not so far as to raise the hand. Plus, he rolls the cylinder into place, rather than pushing it in. I don't believe it's necessary to keep your finger on the trigger, however.
BCRider
Member
That is some very nice gun handling there Damoc.
I've got a pair of Uberti '58's that I shoot for fun and in some cowboy action meets with my club so as a fellow '58 owner I can appreciate your video that little bit extra.
I'd like to say I can swap cylinders as fast as you but I fret over the blueing too much and take far too long. Obviously it would be a lot different if someone were shooting back at me or I practised more and could roll them in more smoothly like you.
As for safety violations given where and how you were shooting I can't say that I saw anything all that bad. Obviously the hammer sat at the half cock while the cylinder swapping was occuring. In that position it isn't possible to drop the hammer anyway so I can't see that there were any issues of significance. And if you were to strike a cap against the frame with enough force to cause an ignition then it would not matter about the finger on the trigger or the 6 out of 6 being loaded anyway. Besides, anyone carrying reload cylinders would more than likely had all 6 loaded anyway. Only the one in the gun would need to be loaded with 5 to have the empty safety spot for the hammer.
I've got a pair of Uberti '58's that I shoot for fun and in some cowboy action meets with my club so as a fellow '58 owner I can appreciate your video that little bit extra.
I'd like to say I can swap cylinders as fast as you but I fret over the blueing too much and take far too long. Obviously it would be a lot different if someone were shooting back at me or I practised more and could roll them in more smoothly like you.
As for safety violations given where and how you were shooting I can't say that I saw anything all that bad. Obviously the hammer sat at the half cock while the cylinder swapping was occuring. In that position it isn't possible to drop the hammer anyway so I can't see that there were any issues of significance. And if you were to strike a cap against the frame with enough force to cause an ignition then it would not matter about the finger on the trigger or the 6 out of 6 being loaded anyway. Besides, anyone carrying reload cylinders would more than likely had all 6 loaded anyway. Only the one in the gun would need to be loaded with 5 to have the empty safety spot for the hammer.
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